Bringing Back Upsilon: Updated Top 12 Sink or Swim

[DeletedUser]

Most players who are active, tend to enjoy having someone to fight, we have no problem having an enemy on all our borders. What we are mentioning is the problem with this server is how its being bored to death, when you have whole gangs of alliances that are too far to even fight us but are not keeping things interesting in their own respective Oceans, instead they are getting together for ice cream socials on their borders and to discuss how much they hate us because God forbid anyone has some pride in being good at attacking/defending(The nerves...).

This server as long as The Hive stays alive is going to be a paradise for Simmers. So instead of having alliances fighting and testing these 4+ Alliance franchises(That you can find in every corner of Upsilon nowadays), they are focused on an enemy they can't even hit(Clearly a great way of keeping members stimulated and excited to play...). I also expected Ass to have better sense than ending every war they fought once their enemy leaders, say hi can I join?, so I didn't think TH would lose its total alliance point edge. They should be congratulated for inviting all of those players in to surpass us and exceed our total alliance point(Lets see how long they can find their alliance exciting enough to stay).

By the way if we are an awful alliance, it sure does speak volume about the fact we are still here regardless of how many alliances come after us. Sim City is hard...thisisgrepolis

Also, nice job addressing the fact the externals are boring to hell thanks to lack of any real story line or action besides TH is the boogeyman...

 

[DeletedUser]

I am an active player and I like to fight. I have played different worlds before. There is allways a frontline and not everyone is close to it, so you have to go towards it.
I started in OC85 bordering OC84 and close to OC95 and I made my way to OC55.

Maybe you should try to play your own game instead of telling us time and time again how we should play it or how we should keep things interesting.
Also if you predict something that later on seemed wrong, why not just admit you were wrong.

I once knew a player in a world (dutch server) who bragged he never lost a city, so I posted his remark in our forum and a few days later he lost a city to my alliance. He then noted that it was not a city in his core and we were lucky he was offline for a while.
Shortly after that we had an alliance op and his cities were a target too. He lost a few of them. Then he started whining that we were attacking him with a whole alliance against one player. (while his alliance wasn't much smaller then ours)
So we didn't play as we should according to him.

That's exactly what happens here over and over again.
We don't need to play your game, we will play ours.
You might not like it, but I'm not telling you how you should play. And if you didn't make "yourself" the common enemy, maybe the world Upsilon might have been a different world.

 

[DeletedUser]

So illustrate how exactly we were such an injustice to Upsilon? If we inflamed and offended your sensibilities so much that instead of having actual fights on your border you(your alliance) came to agreement with everyone you are actually in range of fighting so you can fight the "boogeyman" you should clearly know what exactly we have said or done that is any different than the comments of your alliance's accomplishment uttered here on the forums. They apparently were quite outlandish, like the time when DN said,"im with you vampi. this world is still so young and everyone thinks its already over... we still have like a year and a half before the WW and look at how much the world has changed in a couple months already!"( found in the Upsilon Milestones when we were miles away from anyone, such cockiness and abrasive pride.)

Nothing that has been said here, even if its outright claim of superiority is barely an offense worthy of having your alliance(This is generally speaking not specific to Ass) befriend everyone so they could be able to send defensive support Oceans away against an alliance that has actually never done anything to those people(Again generally speaking, Ass has a good reason to be at war with TH). The Ass-TH War is more than justified but if the only military action your alliance is going to take is against an alliance Oceans away than it doesn't seem like a policy that is going to keep members stimulated, if you believe the "current state of affairs" is correct than I must just be blind to all the posting and major rivalries in Upsilon.

There is many ways to skin a cat but not all might be ideal, all I did was share an opinion just like you did. So instead of trying to "shut me up" for advocating my opinion and lessening the little debate/commenting that occurs on these externals why don't you encourage others to share their experiences, you might actually learn something...

 

[DeletedUser]

so what your saying is that we chose to be targeted? if i remember correctly, we didnt declare war on the world... this world declared war on us and decided to band together in coalitions to take us down. please explain to me how we made ourselves the common enemy... i still dont know why AR hates us...

ps. if i remember correctly, it was Immortal (leader MOZZ) that declared us the common enemy because he was holding a grudge against our former founder Keltset because of events that took place in another world. everyone else just decided to jump on the band wagon

 

[DeletedUser]

Somehing went wrong and I lost part of the text. I'm not gonna start over lol

 

[DeletedUser]

lol That is the worst!! I'm constantly paranoid that something is going to happen and its going to get cleared even with the auto-save.

 

[DeletedUser6798]

Auto Save has saved me dozens of times!

That being said I dont think we are telling you how your alliance should act or go about it's business. At least I know I havent. I have just been on here trying to push the envelope in order to increase participation on here. I think it has worked.

In doing so, all I have asked is a reasonable analysis to back the opinions you choose to make on here. That is the purpose of a Sink/Swim thread... but unfortunately, no one else apparently thinks it is worth their time to be analytical. Take your outlandish claims elsewhere thisisgrepolis

I think my opinion is obvious.. I feel the total points stat is a bunch of fool's gold. Things constantly change in grepolis and total points greatly reflect that. It is fighting statistics that prove to be constant and can give you a better idea about the patterns of a player and the strength of an alliance. That is my biggest issue with some of the alliances on this world. It is that their top players avoid conflict for the most part and grow in total points merely by means of spending an excess of money and feeding off leftovers that should be made available to others in the alliance. I'm not saying you need to change, but using total points as a means to prove superiority is a waste in my eyes.

Oh and on an additional note! Herzele, you wouldnt be able to jump from O85 to O55 if this world wasnt having an entire love fest with each other outside of The Hive. Another personal opinion of mine, but spreading yourself over 6 oceans while still being outside of the top 100 fighters and outside the top 450 defenders just baffles me. You say you have played in other worlds, no world I have ever played in would allow you to do so very easily. In other worlds, you would be an easy target. You havent been tested and your alliances' defensive powers are questionable as well. With a slow speed world 2/3 of your support couldnt reach you in a 24 hour time frame. Normally this would make you a target, but here, you have been left alone for the time being while every alliance in your area focuses on a common enemy... even if they are out of your reach.

 

[DeletedUser9702]

So I have been playing the game for a few months now, and I have been reading the Upsilon forums. I am interested in people's views on how to "rate" alliances. While I see Oliver's point about the limitations of total points I also see a problem with using the battle points as well.

The ABP and DBP statistics represent aggregate activity. What they essential measure is not how powerful any given alliance is at any point in time but rather how long an alliance has been active. It doesn't surprise me that the HIVE has the most battle points. Since their cities are at the core oceans they entered the world first and thus have been accumulating points for a longer period of time than other alliances. A few posts ago someone compared ABP/DPB within a given period of time. This seems a much more valid measure than total battle points, because you are controlling for the length of time available to people to earn them. Without a comparable time frame the battle point totals don't tell you very much.


The total points are problematic too, but for a different reason. They do not tell you much about the battle skills of the players. Though they are probably a better indicator of relative capabilities (assets available to a particular group at any given point in time.)

Battle points tell you about activity levels and skill levels of a player/alliance, provided you control for the length of time they can be earned.

Total points better reflect the overall assets available to each player or group.

BTW/ full disclosure--I am a member of the Heracletian Alliance. We lagged the Imperial Cult in both total points and battle points but absolutely decimated them in our recent war. So this argument may be a bit overblown in that none of these measures are really that good at gauging relative power of the groups.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks MQ, very good post! I don't know much about the Heracletian Alliance because they are a few oceans away from me, but are you sure you were in a war?

I'm sure I've read on here that The Hive are the only ones that ever fight anybody.

 

[DeletedUser]

Aww, you actually bring up a good point though Zuul. You just helped make my case, you are looking at a member of Heracletian Alliance, an alliance who was not only a dwarf in comparison to The Hive, had the guts to come after us with everyone else but unlike the scared leadership of Ass, HC has the guts to multi-task and fight another alliance at the same time they were in a war against someone much stronger than them in total points.

Unlike the cowardly leadership style of Ass, HC has leadership that has guts and know that a long-distance war against TH is not enough to keep their members entertained, so what did they do? Take on another one of those Subway(Since they pop these as fast as some of these alliances pop Academies-sister alliances) Brand Alliances that on paper looked like more than they could handle but that didn't stop them from taking what they felt is theirs. I commend HC leadership for having the insight on keeping their members happy-stimulated.

My good friend Black Death 2 was in HC and I've been aware of your alliance for some time. I am always appreciative of seeing an alliance not scared of taking on the bigger fish and also having the balls to go after closer enemies as well at the same time. Fortune favors the bold! Keep up the good work Marius, you made some excellent points and Ass keep on singing kumba ya!

 

[DeletedUser]

...HC has the guts to multi-task and fight another alliance at the same time they were in a war against someone much stronger than them in total points.

Unlike the cowardly leadership style of Ass, HC has leadership that has guts...

Cerulias, if you were leader of AR, which alliance much stronger than AR in total points would you go to war with?

 

[DeletedUser]

Cerulias the man of great predictions and big words.

You are again critizing the way we play the game - because you are frustrated of the position you brought your alliance in.
We are happy to play the game we are online dayly because we are in a good alliance with good leadership. Everyone gets the help needed, questions are responded fast, the input of new players is flowing. There's a good atmosphere and I hear noone complaining in our alliance.
The leadership is trying to keep everyone happy and I think they are succeeding. Off course now and then players quit, but they usualy stop leaving a message that they had a great time but have too little time to play.

The only input you have is your constant critisism on my alliance and offcourse your grandiloquence (had to look this one up, I hope it's the word i mean "grootspraak" in Dutch) about your own alliance.

Maybe you should put more time in the game then on the forums.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well back when you had the chance and you were smaller Zuul, I would of befriended ONE of the border alliances. Having friends on your border is a good thing, you just don't want to completely encircle yourself with allies either. At this point, The Trinity would be the best alliance for you guys to go after, they are involved already in a war on their other border which makes it easier to fight them, you have the biggest border with them, meaning the most players in your alliance can actually fight them and the icing on the cake is if you actually conquer them than you can be next to us and you can enjoy beating on our puny MRA. Anti-matter wouldn't be a good choice for the fact your border with them isn't as large as with Trinity, so you will still be in a position that most of your players won't be able to participate and going after Anti-matter might put Trinity in a position to go after you guys seeing your border is being attacked by Anti.

The rationale is your word goes far in this game and eventually you will have to fight your border alliances, so hence why you don't want to befriend all of them unless you are okay with breaking your word. I take my word very seriously in this game and do not take pacting lightly. On Eta if I came to your alliance with a pact, you better believe I would rather move hell than break it but eventually breaking your pact status occurs. It broke my heart when I had to turn on two of my pact allies for the greater good of my alliance but I put my alliance in a position that having to break a pact status occurred very rarely since I didn't go on a love-fest pacting everyone under the sun.

My belief on pacts is if you make a pact, it should be a permanent bond and on top of that I strongly believe that pact allies should work as a team, fighting the same enemies and working for the same common goal. On Eta, I only had three real pact Allies(Oceanus) which we shared an Ocean with, The Union which cultivated a relationship with us when we were nothing but ants and my academy alliance(Mind you Eta has a 50 pop limit, so I can only imagine the amount of academies some of these alliances would have on Eta if this world is any model of their desire for academies). With those three pact allies, we eliminated almost everyone off the server and we never entered a war with an alliance that we weren't border to and actually fought/conquered.

It seemed to have worked well, I have gone through less members in a 50 member alliance than Ass has already gone through in a world much younger than Eta. Now trust me, I know every world is different and strategies in one, need to be changed for another but in the end some things are basic and universal but the alliances on Eta that took 1st place through merging a bunch of different alliances/players in Oceans far from their original core, usually got in a serious war and than eventually disappeared. I know at times I can be a bit of an ass, especially with my jabs but disregarding the immaturity, the core of my message is sound and you can act like I'm insane and have no idea what I'm doing but I think a few players in your own alliance might disagree and most definitely the players I have led on Eta since the beginning of my alliance.

Herz without giving too much away, trust me not everyone is happy about your alliance and your policies, I understand you have to "sell" that your players are content but if you keep down this road, it won't be you that will be proven correct. Again, I'm just stating obvious things, if you can't see it and think I'm completely insane than clearly the problems might lie on your brain's ability to process things than mines.

By the way this thread was made for Analysis of top 12 alliances, if you have a problem with our ANALYSIS than by all means put your silly working brain to work and write up a post. What is sad is all TH players did was create this thread to bring back some external forum action to a dead external. Clearly because of a lack of story lines on this world because everyone felt threatened by TH. Now instead of being a child and whining about our analysis, nobody else has actually manned up and written one up to share their perspective of this world.

Its embarrassing that all Ass can do is complain, whine instead of actually contributing to the thread and writing up some analysis for other people to enjoy and read. You guys are the ones who came out from the wood works to cry but yet none of you kiddies want to put the time in to actually contribute and keep this thread going besides petty bickering?

Herz you really are the best lol, instead of addressing the problem of this external becoming a dead zone of activity, time after time you pretty much say shut up(At least in a lot of words and in a somewhat nice way for as nice as you can tell someone to shut the hell up lol). I understand you are terrible at debating and making a point, but you shouldn't just rely on trying to silence others versus actually engaging them. For all the things I have said about your alliance, I have never once said you guys should shut up and not comment, on the contrary I want you guys to write up analysis and spark more conversation but instead all you can focus on is trying to "shut people up" are you that scared of people realizing how much of a paper tiger your alliance is you'd rather silence debate than actually engage in it?

 

[DeletedUser]

My dear Cerulias,

Even though i'm a Belgian player who isn't used speaking english and even wors writing it, I try to engage in debates. If I would be able to put it in my own language i'm sure it would be clearer.
The only thing I see you doing the whole time is making people ridiculous by sentences as

the problems might lie on your brain's ability

or

put your silly working brain to work

and

instead of being a child and whining

A whole lot of childish remarks that certainly will engage people to speak. Don't worry I forgive you, I know what category you fit in.

For me it's back to Grepolis. I hope I will be knocking on your gate very soon.

Christophe

 

[DeletedUser]

Well back when you had the chance and you were smaller Zuul...

I don't expect everyone to know everything that is going on everywhere in the world at every time, but this has been pointed out numerous times: when AR was smaller, they took on everyone bigger than them. Consider the first post in this thread:

1. The Hive
My alliance so I wont say anything other than that we are #1 in ABP and DBP

2. Uprising
Swim
Outside of The Hive, these guys have the highest per player average of any of the other Top 12 alliances. They are a rim based alliance, so they have a stronghold on their core and cover a large area of the map. However, they are sandwiched between 2 other top 5 alliances to their internal decisions on expansion will greatly effect their future. Their Top 5 status in ABP and DBP also show strong participation from the top down.

3. Assassins Rite
Float then Sink
My first bold prediction for a top 3 alliance. While I think they will float for a while, their situation will be their downfall. They seem to be even further out on the rim than Uprising, and will either have to take them on directly or attempt to expand into the core which is never an easy task. They arent under much attack as shown in their awful #18 DBP rating, but are #4 in ABP which shows they are still growing. Only time will tell how they handle the pressure of being under constant attack. As with most rim alliances, it is hard to get a true grasp on them as they are typically left to themselves for the first portion of the world.

As to #2 above, Uprising, shortly after this post AR declared war on them and they were wiped off the map (with help from other alliances that are mostly now part of AR). (Full disclosure: I was a small member of Uprising's academy at this point.) As to #1 above, The Hive, AR has been at war with them and so far it has been completely one-sided, and they are now #4 and falling fast.

It's absurd now to say that they should be going after people bigger than them when Havoc is the only one about the same size, and they are a couple oceans away.

At this point, The Trinity would be the best alliance for you guys to go after...

I thought you were getting on AR for not fighting people much bigger than them? Trinity is literally half AR's size. We'll let smaller alliances like The Hive try and take them on.

But that doesn't appear to be going that well for you...

The way I see Upsilon right now is that there are three major players with the best chance to be among the last 2 or 3 standing: Havoc, Antimatter, and AR. Trinity, Spec Ops, Hive, and Arrivederci are the targets of the major players, either for merger or war. Elder Gods, HA, and Elite I don't know too much about.

 

[DeletedUser]

lol Yes its so much nicer to just be polite when telling someone to shut up and that their opinions are garbage. I guess that is how they do things in Belgium, put a nice face and say some sweet words when in effect they are telling you to shut the hell up.

Only a fool like yourself would think in-game threats are actually something to be scared off? Oh what are you going to do, attack me? You are going to give me a ton of DBP and help me rack up more cities, oh no please don't be so evil lol

You think that just because you don't engage in such remarks that you are this beacon of civility? Far from it, your remarks are just as childish, poorly executed(Regardless of your language barrier) and more importantly lacking in any real substance, you are just more boring/bland than to use commentary that I might use to manipulate/incite a response, everything I say or do is intended for a reason you can't blame me for your inability to understand things beyond just attacking/defending. I just hope you play this game better than you "express" yourself on here because if not, I feel for your alliance and your fellow team mates.

You want to be the Big Dog and throw around in-game threats than go for it, cities don't move here, you know where to find me, it would be a pleasure to sink all of your forces in a noobish attempt in expressing your "pride" or "rage" because you can't handle a back forth with someone.

lol Some people are just too easy...thisisgrepolis
I like knowing that your pride was hurt by little ole me...=)

Now that was a good post Zuul, had substance, background information and was mostly things you can't argue against and you still mixed in some very well placed jabs. Definitely a good post! I can't argue against that but doesn't change the fact Ass is going to need an enemy besides TH. Nothing can be said or done that will change that barring you guys merging The Trinity but that won't help you guys in the argument that Ass is the most merge happy alliance of this server which some would argue is the definition of an MRA.

Even in your own post you admit to the fact you guys have merged many times(or taken in several different alliances)...

 

[DeletedUser]

lol Oh don't run away, you were so interesting...Better than some of your fellow kids, messaging our player griping about our external forum criticisms. One of them running away from their attacks because they were VM checking or wanting us to blow spells, I don't know which one of the rambling reasons he wants to stick with and another one running away from the externals.

I hope you fight better than can take some words...=)

 

[DeletedUser3522]

http://us.grepostats.com/world/us21/alliance/18/colonizations?type=lose&enemy_alliance=424&min_points=&max_points=

^^ 3 pages of lost cities. Choose not to fight, doesnt matter to me, but dont claim we didnt bring it to you. Call us cowards and then run and hide, ha!

No wars? we've toppled multiple alliances on our borders from O76, to O67, to O66. Continue to deny it ... again, it doesnt matter to me.

As silly as it has gotten, continue your lies if you want. We are ALL laughing at you.

Upset everyone is against you? Go back and read these forums and you will understand why. Read the coalition story post. Read the original top 12 posts. Your arrogance and your extremely poor merge choice in the beginning (Dulce) was your downfall. You claim to want talk on these forums, but go back and look. The very first post by anyone other than yourselves and you jumped all over an innocent one sentence remark as if you own these forums. Your predictions have been biased and shown to be false - sorry to ruin your propaganda machine.

Don't complain about bp or any other stat. Your strategy has left you stagnant for the past month. Own it.

You came to a beginner world looking for an easy win and thought your arrogance would carry you along, yet now you are alone. Others came here to teach and built teams based on trust and respect and are stronger for it. You have nowhere to turn. Your members are leaving you. You're begging enemies for a truce. You've beaten yourself. And the best is yet to come

And now I'm sure you'll respond with the same stats argument or complaining about other's pacts, but in the end it really only speaks to your own poor (or lack of) strategy. Congrats on playing a 3 month game. The rest of us have been many steps ahead of you from the start, which is becoming more evident by the day.

To put it simply ... you're doing it wrong

Now turtle up simmy!

 

[DeletedUser]

The Mighty Fools comes out of hiding to destroy the terrible injustice of telling a player he shouldn't be telling others to shut up...

Such a great hero, yes because nobody is laughing at your MRA of an alliance...Nobody at all, nobody is complaining within your alliance to me about your "leadership" or style. I am glad you have found entertainment in my posts, which was my desired effect but time after time your sensitivity to facts/words is beyond belief lol. I'll make sure to offer all that non-existing inside information that I receive to whatever alliance on your border that decides to test how weak your MRA is. Honestly, I hate even revealing this much but you'll never find them all

I've never met a group of people more sensitive to criticisms like the clowns in Ass. You really did find an alliance of your peers, gold buying kids too scared to actually fight a border alliance and actually maintain the war. Again you guys have been in plenty of war, except you are too scared to actually finish any of them minus throwing out some threats to an alliance you can't do anything besides poke on the forums. How many alliances did you have to merge/take in to reach number one? lol

lmao You think you are being so amazing and actually think your strategy is a winning one, that is the joke right there. I'll continue to be fed information from the disgruntled Ass players because they are the ones that have to deal with your inept leadership. Oh a "Simmy" insult coming from the guy who eats his own inactive player cities like skittles, what should you be called besides being a vulture?

http://us.grepostats.com/world/us21/alliance/424/colonizations?type=gain&enemy_alliance=-1&min_points=&max_points=&page=0

That cuts both ways, it might take a min but try finding an actual alliance in the top 10 in your own alliance's conquest. You sure are eating a ton from weak players/alliances and it took a few pages before I found your last conquest of a TH city. A loss is a loss and I commend you for having several Oceans taking on one Ocean of TH cities, sure has taken a tad to eliminate such trash tho...

Now I have to wait a day for Fools to be able to think of something smart and witty to say. Hopefully you think of responses better than you think strategy...

I can see why you don't want to rock the boat too much on your borders, all those ghosts, inactive, Lorna Block and scari cities are really tough to crack..

Keep feeding me with more, this is fun =). I liked knowing I've gotten under your alliance's skin that much that I'm being mentioned, obviously I'm trying to stay under the radar and terribly afraid of being attacked hence why an ant of a player is non-stop inciting/toying with the alleged masters of Upsilon lol. Not going to lie, your people are just not that impressive minus a few good players that have the misfortune of playing where they are playing.

 

[DeletedUser6798]

So I have been playing the game for a few months now, and I have been reading the Upsilon forums. I am interested in people's views on how to "rate" alliances. While I see Oliver's point about the limitations of total points I also see a problem with using the battle points as well.

The ABP and DBP statistics represent aggregate activity. What they essential measure is not how powerful any given alliance is at any point in time but rather how long an alliance has been active. It doesn't surprise me that the HIVE has the most battle points. Since their cities are at the core oceans they entered the world first and thus have been accumulating points for a longer period of time than other alliances. A few posts ago someone compared ABP/DPB within a given period of time. This seems a much more valid measure than total battle points, because you are controlling for the length of time available to people to earn them. Without a comparable time frame the battle point totals don't tell you very much.


The total points are problematic too, but for a different reason. They do not tell you much about the battle skills of the players. Though they are probably a better indicator of relative capabilities (assets available to a particular group at any given point in time.)

Battle points tell you about activity levels and skill levels of a player/alliance, provided you control for the length of time they can be earned.

Total points better reflect the overall assets available to each player or group.

BTW/ full disclosure--I am a member of the Heracletian Alliance. We lagged the Imperial Cult in both total points and battle points but absolutely decimated them in our recent war. So this argument may be a bit overblown in that none of these measures are really that good at gauging relative power of the groups.

These are all good points. To basically address your timing issue I have this: That does work when looking at alliance stats. BP only accumulated while members are under that specific banner. The Hive has been around longer than many of the other alliances, but that also speaks worlds to the state of this world. It is a perfect picture of the constant merging and teaming up with your neighbors that goes on in this alliance.

As a counter point, I ask you to look at individual BP statistics. These paint a better picture of what type of players are in an alliance. The players in the core joined right when the server opened, however the world fills up fast, and the players on the rim really only joined a week or 2 after the majority of Hive players joined. This is where the BP counts. I challenge any of the players I have called out on here to get into the top 10 fighters in the next 2 weeks. It simply isnt possible.

Also remember that this is a speed 1 world. It is slowwwwwww. 2 weeks in upsilon can be compared to 4 days in Phi, which is a speed 3 revolt. That makes your timing issue a little less of an issue.

To address your total points comm you are missing one thing. Total points can be influenced by many things, one thing in particular is gold. If you dont attack people you dont get city slots unless you use gold, as Digital pointed out. I does speak to your concept of assets available to a particular group, but the problem is what the group is willing to do in order to get those assets. If they do not participate in the alliance and are merely playing Sim City, are they even Assets? In my opinion, an assets will help the alliance succeed. Only way to do that is to fight.

Also Zuul, if you havent heard of HA then you dont pay very much attention to anything.. They are closer to you then most of The Hive.. but i guess you have so many friends it is hard to keep track.

Ceru.. dont talk so much.. your long posts make my eyes hurt

Herzele, if you had as much activity as you said you do within your alliance, your top players wouldnt be making a living on taking internals. Nor would they be outside the top 100 fighters. thisisgrepolis not Sim City. If you enjoy playing the game that way then you are in the right place

And foos.. Your alliance's claim to fame is hitting us in O66.. we all get that.. no need to beat it to death.. every other claim you have made is baseless and/or pure opinion which gives me no need to break it down at all.. but welcome back to the forums.. You also cant say you have toppled all these alliances when a majority of their members merge into you.. Now is it good to take some good players as a result of beating down an alliance? Yes, but AR takes the good the bad and the ugly. Take any good internals lately?