Bringing Back Upsilon: Updated Top 12 Sink or Swim

Oliver Clothesoff

Hekatonarch
I dont know whether to appreciate that comment or be offended.

But I respect it.

Only thing I will say, is that FB had everyone fooled except AR. Oh! and that I never said stats were the only part of the equation. However, they are the most tangible. Meaning that when i analyze an alliance, I only use what I can prove as fact. That includes BP, cities taken/lost, and activity(including days missed). Those are all absolute truths, and anyone who tries to refute them is exhibiting more bias than I am by bringing them up.

Sure I like to have fun and make conclusions based on those truths. Most people will not agree exactly with my conclusions, but its an opinion and at least I am basing it on something tangible, and not just rumors and views of grandeur that are all up in the air somewhere.
 

ximikos

Guest
. Most people will not agree exactly with my conclusions, but its an opinion and at least I am basing it on something tangible, and not just rumors and views of grandeur that are all up in the air somewhere.
Which just proves my point. The charts and stats you posted with such glee shortly after the FireFail acquistion showed AM/DM with upwards and onwards trajectories. Based on what? A bunch of Havoc-non-hackers who would prove equally fail for you. I've heard of Trojan Horses, but this is the first time I witnessed Trojan statistics. Your stats, like your alliance, were built upon FEET OF CLAY.

 
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Oliver Clothesoff

Hekatonarch
Mikos.. all the battle statistics about cities won/lost.. that was going on in the front lines along the eastern border. Havoc players made up a portion of the west. Every city we took from you (at over a 2-to-1 ratio) had nothing to do with them. Look at the battle statistics.. AM/DM has 6 of the top 10 fighters. AR has one, and that player is gone. As a matter of fact, you have AR's highest BP stats, so even you realize that battle points are what make this world go round.

As I said before, these stats are absolute truths. AR did lose all those cities to AM/DM. AR doesnt have the battle ready nor battle tested players that AM/DM has. And foos did go into VM right after he declared war, and has consistently refused to help defend his alliance mates. Now why these truths exist, well that is where the interpretation begins. Thats the fun part. I'm not pretending to know anything I dont. And there is no way you can pretend that these statistics arent true.
 

ximikos

Guest
Ok Definitely NEED an updated Sink/Swim. Please forgive my harshness, it is meant to incite debate.. These are MY honest, well thought out opinions. I am trying to be as unbiased as possible. If you disagree with me, don't voice your opinion unless you are willing to back your opinion with the effort I put into mine. That being said, away we go..

1. Antimatter
Last Rank: 7
Swim

My own alliance, per usual no comment. Here are some stats: 3 of top 10 attackers, 3 of 10 top defenders, and 3 of top 10 fighters. 13 of top 50 fighters.



2. Assassins Rite
Last Rank: 1
Float then Sink

Same old same old with this alliance. Their leader is in VM, and when he gets back he is in for a surprise. Since "The Declaration" this alliance has performed quite poorly. They have taken 14 cities from their enemies and lost 18. While that does not seem like it is that bad, at this point they still pose no serious threat. They only have 1 Attacker in the top 10 and 7 in the top 50. Considering they have 7 players in the top 20 in points, it makes a lot of players sitting around not contributing much to the war. I have them floating for now as due to their size they will be able to stick around for a while. However, due to their poor attacking skills, this alliance is already dead in the water and has been for quite some time. They are also losing ground in overall BP to younger alliances like Antimatter, DarkMatter, and Special Ops. As with other alliances, I will not rely much on DBP statistics because when most of the world is at war with one another DBP is bound to pile up and may not represent player skill. Stats I will consider moving forward will be individual ABP and increase in total points.

As The Hive was criticized for stagnant growth by this alliance, it is their turn to be looked at over the course of 4 weeks



While an upward trend is always nice, their growth rate has taken a hit since the start of the war.

3. Dark Matter
Last Rank: NR
Swim

Same with DM, I will not comment. Here are some stats for DM: 2 of top 10 attackers, 2 of top 10 defenders, 3 of top 10 fighters (including top 2). Also already #9 in ABP and #7 in DBP. Not bad for an alliance about a month old.



4. The Elder Gods
Last Rank: 5
Swim

Here is what I wrote last time:
"I must say this alliance has turned it around. Through decent recruiting and high activity this alliance has been able to take advantage of Havoc in "their" core oceans. It seems their goal is to expand away from the core as they are avoiding another conflict with The Hive. How long it will last remains to be see, as there is still a lot left to be established in this section of the world. "

With the merge of Hive players to AM/DM The Elder Gods have remained loyal to their relationships. With any pressure on them from the core gone, this alliance has been able to focus on a certain direction. Their continued war with Havoc has caused some ups and down, but with the most recent occurrences, the alliance will likely continue to see an uptick.



However this alliance still lacks a presence towards the top of the leaderboard in BP. They have 1 player in the top 10 in ABP and 1 in the top 10 fighters. However they only have 3 of the top 50 fighters (and one was a player recently internalized). This could hurt them moving forward, but for now they continue to play their cards right.


5. The Trinity
Last Rank: 4
Sink
"When this alliance first came together I thought the showed good promise. They are now getting hammered by the Hive as they took on some of the better players from the alliances previously sunk by the Hive. Their Academy is also in the same situation. No need for further detail, nothing much has changed from my previous post except now they are being targeted more. "

This is what I wrote about The trinity last time, before "The Declaration". It still fits perfectly. Since then, The Trinity has seem their top player given a temporary ban for cheating and has yet to take a city during the war from their enemy. Their growth has become stagnant, and it shouldnt be long before we see a downward trend here



6. Havoc Resurgent
Last Rank: 4
Sunk
Lol what can I say about the once great Havoc "system"? For an alliance which their founder once boasted were 500 strong, they sure did crumble with the departure of 6 of their players. To add insult to injury many of their other stronger players have ghosted once they say the other players leave. This alliance is done. They still have 1 top 10 ttacker, but right now you have to question their will and their numbers.



7. Special Ops
Last Rank: NR
Swim then Sink

It isnt very often I post a swim then sink prediction for any alliance. However that can be credited to some of this alliance's top players. Floating just isnt in their vocabulary. They have no top 10 fighters, but as a whole they are moving up in the ranks. They have had the most success against AM/DM since "The Declaration" but with their mates floundering, their "success" just cannot be sustained. The still have a good bit of room for recruitment, so I can see them making a move in that department to try to counter and drop off they might experience. They have taken 22 cities in the war and lost 25. The longer they can keep that stat close the longer they can hang around. However, most of their cities taken have been in their core, but so have their cities lost.



Once again the war has slow the growth of this alliance. This is reflected by the fact that they are finally being tested. How they hold up remains to be seen. Additionally it is directly related to the success of their pacts around them.

8. Heracletian Alliance
Last Rank: NR
Float then Sink

As an academy, the status of this alliance is comparable to the main alliance. In this case, that is trending downward. While Heracletian has been pretty much left alone since "The Declaration" that is only due to the overall distance as a whole. Similarly, they have yet to take any cities of their own from AM/DM.



While they are trending upward, a look at the list of cities they are taking paint the true picture. There is nothing but ghosts, small alliances, and internals. They boot out a considerable amount of people over time, but are unable to fill the slots. That also does not bode well for their ability to continue over the long haul.

9. The Elite
Last Rank: N/R
Float

This is another Rim alliance that has found themselves in the top 10. Considering they are 10 million points behind the top alliance, it is likely they will be able to float on the rim while causing some trouble for some of the bigger alliances. Based on who they align themselves with could determine what kind of future these guys have. Most of their cities being taken right now are internals, so they will have to branch out and put together some kind of effort against someone else if they ever want to grow. They have no top 50 attackers or fighters, but it really shouldnt be expected from a small alliance.




Based on the fact that the #10 alliance is also an academy, I dont even see a point in discussing any of the others. It is clear to see that the top players are all within the top 3 or 4 alliances right now. Some other alliances are trending up, but they are very dependent on the success of others. As the largest war continues to rage on, a lot can still change.

But for now I will say it one for time, since "The Declaration" the score is 75-43 in favor of AM/DM. Regardless of what anyone else can say, that is the stat that holds the most weight.





Ahem. Taken shortly after the Firefail defection. You were so giddy with your hours of pm'ing Firefail et al. to gain their defection, so hopeful that you were building with statistical gold and not statistical clay.
 
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Oliver Clothesoff

Hekatonarch
Lol giddy? I didnt even comment about the FB thing?@? What are you reading?

And i must admit.. I was pretty spot on with those picks up until this point!
 

ximikos

Guest


6. Havoc Resurgent
Last Rank: 4
Sunk
Lol what can I say about the once great Havoc "system"? For an alliance which their founder once boasted were 500 strong, they sure did crumble with the departure of 6 of their players. To add insult to injury many of their other stronger players have ghosted once they say the other players leave. This alliance is done. They still have 1 top 10 ttacker, but right now you have to question their will and their numbers.

Do you even read the comments you post up here? Once more, prosecutorial incompetence from Oliver Nakedbrain. Oliver's skull, sink or swim? It'll float due to all the hot air contained inside..

 
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Oliver Clothesoff

Hekatonarch
Ummm have you seen Havoc... Please explain to me how they are now sunk right now..

Yes their players left..I didnt make a big deal about it.. They got 1 sentence. I still stand by the fact that this is far from giddy. My remark on their sinking was more based on the fact that even when those players left, more players quit the game because of it. That caused the alliances' downfall.

And lets get this straight.. the player that has never won crown yet has photoshopped a crown onto his avatar (in a very poor manner for that matter) is saying my head is filled with hot air? Now that just made my day. Whenever you are ready to have a man's discussion let me know because you are just making this child's play.
 

Oliver Clothesoff

Hekatonarch
New mini sink swim!!!

Only alliances that matter to this world shall be rated:

1. Antimatter
Swim


The end

Maybe that will bring back some people

No but lets take a gander at my last predictions:

1. Assassins Rite- Float
Will make it to WW obviously, but does not have the player structure to be successful
So far looks about right

2. Anitmatter- Swim
Will make it WW. The end.
Nothing has changed

3. The Elder Gods- Float
They lost one of their top players, but still remain in solid position. What they do come WW time remains to be seen
I must admit this was a cheap prediction as it didnt involve anything. However the alliance is now #2 so i guess i was right when i said they were in a solid position!

4. DarkMatter- Swim
N/A
N/A

5. The Trinity- Float
#4 alliance in the 4 horse race for WW's. I question their efficiency.
Now not only do I question their efficiency, but I question their integrity as well.

6. Night Vision- Float
Way out west, with no real threats to their core. They may try to make a WW or 2, but definitely don't have what it takes to complete one.
After the merge between western super-friends, I still dont think they will make a wonder. But this alliance ended up sunk

7. The Wheel- Sink
Top members will be brought in to try to put one of the top alliances over the top in WW stage, but will it be enough? Are their players that good?
Look at that. I predicted the Saints and Wheel merger. till dont think these guys are in a position to make their own wonders, so based on the past and with what Trinity/Hera is doing, it is safe to say these guys will follow suit.

8. Heracletian- Sink
Same as The Wheel. If they are smart, they could really help out trinity.
Slight combination of Trinity and wheel here.. smh

9. Saints- Sink/Float
No analysis needed. They wont matter much come WW time unless they go where Wheel goes.
Sunk

10. -Guardians of the West-- Float
They wont merge with NV, so they likely wont go anywhere. Just try to be a thorn in other alliances' sides. They may keep their focus on BP, but it wont get them anywhere.
Well they didnt merge into NV.. they went back to Havoc with NV. Think alliance has been converted to a typical havoc style academy with players that provide slim to none benefit but are kept around to look pretty.
New additions to the top 10:

#5. Four Horsemen
Float
May as well have called themselves Havoc X or something. NV probably didnt want it. The Four Horsemen is made up of 3 alliances, so their inability to do math will likely translate poorly to building WWs. While no one will take out this alliance, that is not the stage of the world we are entering. Best of luck building wonders.

#9. *TEG*
Sink
I honestly only think this alliance is around to hide some of TEG's top players. Plus clb can change the name as many times as he pleases and no one will be mad at him. I look for this alliance to either be dissolved or left in the dust once wonders start

#10. Diaboli Rotae
Sink-ish
The fact this alliance has cracked the top 10 is a testament to the consolidation going on in the world as WW's is approaching. This alliance would be sunk if it werent just standing in ankle deep water. That being said I wouldnt be surprised if someone still tries to hold their head down. One third of the alliance is inactive, another third may not even have conquest researched. So for the 25 players that dont fall into those 2 categories (the "active" players that got left behind in the Saint/Wheel merge) what are you even doing???
 
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Detow

Messenger
I would like to thank your alliance Oliver for ruining this server. What you guys have done is shameful but expected I suppose. I had assumed that your rankings were based off of leader skill and player commitment this whole time, not how much gold you can spend on Quicksilver. So tell me, how much money does it cost to reduce a 30 hour build to 15 hours, 400 seconds at 400 favor at a time?
 

MomQB

Guest
I love how every time someone is beating you people always like to think there is some magic or cheat behind it lmao. We just have an awesome alliance btw. Nice of you to notice though!
 

Detow

Messenger
I love how every time someone is beating you people always like to think there is some magic or cheat behind it lmao. We just have an awesome alliance btw. Nice of you to notice though!
Nice try mom, but don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining. Simple math tells what makes your alliance so awesome, and no, it's not magic. Let's look at the math shall we? My estimate of 15 hours off your lvl 7 Lighthouse build is conservative (really conservative), but let's go with it. Each hour required 20 favor donations for that level.
15 x 20 = 300
So at a minimum your alliance gave 400 favor from each god 300 times in a 15 hour period. Am I to believe that every member in your alliance donated three times in this 15 hour period? Then that means that every member in your alliance produces 100 favor from each god every hour....that's also assuming that your only worry was the Lighthouse and not the other WW that you are building, which it isn't.

You can tell everyone how awesome you guys are, but we know what is really happening...We will continue to pressure you guys into pouring money into the Quicksilver and buying your world wonders. Hurry up! Only 40 hours left until your Golden Cauldron is gone..which I guess is in fact magic...
 
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The Cathar Empire

Guest
If your summation is correct, detow, than when the Cauldron event is over and done I assume you will be able to catch us! However, if you are wrong, I am left wondering what excuse you will find to blame your alliance's failings on.

(HINT - you may want to start thinking of that new excuse now rather than later)
 

Detow

Messenger
My original point is that your spending has ruined the server. I do not wish to compete against people who spend money and claim or brag about how good they are as mom did in her reply. It turns into who is willing to spend more money instead of skill and planning. You may be an awesome alliance as mom claimed, and you may in fact win the crown, but you are not currently leading all WW builds on skill alone.
 

Oliver Clothesoff

Hekatonarch
I love golllllllllllllllllldddddddddddddddddddddd



No offense Detow.. but maybe you arent doing as well because your calculations arent very accurate? I knew 4H members couldnt do math..

#5. Four Horsemen
Float
May as well have called themselves Havoc X or something. NV probably didnt want it. The Four Horsemen is made up of 3 alliances, so their inability to do math will likely translate poorly to building WWs. While no one will take out this alliance, that is not the stage of the world we are entering. Best of luck building wonders.
But reducing a 30 hour build by 15 hours would be a pretty neat feat. So I take your jealously as a compliment. However Antimatter policies have long spoken for themselves. We have expanded by being fierce fighters. We rank as the top attackers/defenders by a large margin. We have expanded through that way. However take a look at some players in other alliances. They have players in the top 20 points wise, but rank around 200 in BP. No way they could have that many cities based on their fighting habits. So that means they expand through city festivals and gold. If we havent been gold mongers for over the course of a year, how do you expect we would start now?

I also disagree that this world has been far from ruined. Look at all the alliances making wonders. That means there is still a HUGE amount of interest in this world. We still have about 1k active players. some worlds fail to make the 300 player requirement. So basically you are just pouting at your inefficiencies.

But really now, look at the size difference between our alliances. You should really just be patting yourselves on the back for keeping it close.

btw.. here is the math.. For level 7 favor reduces build time by 6m40s... so thats to find out how many reduction do this:

15 hours x 60 minutes per hour= 900 minutes in 15 hours. Then 900 minutes/ 6m40s for 1 favor reduction(or 6+40/60=6.66667) and you get ~135 favor reductions. Thank you. Come again.
 
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DeletedUser9934

Guest
uhh yea, what Oli said.... Honestly detow, what do you expect? your biggest player would be like the 15 to 20th ranked player between the 3 matters. Most of your players can use a 50% favor badge and still be behind a large number of our players that don't have a badge in daily favor production. Quicksilver or not you just don't have the stamina for this marathon.
 

Detow

Messenger
Please accept my apologies.
My math was off and I didn't realize that build times could only be reduced in half. I didn't see any other possible way that you guys could've surpassed us other than using that cauldron. It doesn't taste good, but I thank you for the humble pie.

You guys have done a good job with the wonders up to this point and I look forward to seeing how the world is finished.
 

BayouBrit

Peltast
Please accept my apologies.
My math was off and I didn't realize that build times could only be reduced in half. I didn't see any other possible way that you guys could've surpassed us other than using that cauldron. It doesn't taste good, but I thank you for the humble pie.

You guys have done a good job with the wonders up to this point and I look forward to seeing how the world is finished.
Thanks for your apology and the good wishes.
I thought your math was off. I'm a medium sized player for my alliance I would think (some are way bigger than me) but I have 53 cities with my gods evenly spread and many divine statues with Temples maxed in many. My lowest favor producing god does 22.1 per hour. I always do quests and get the 50% favor adder. I also take advantage of events and target favor items rather than other stuff. All of these things lead to large favor production. I credit those with the forethought for building their cities to facilitate this with WW in mind. For many of us it meant demolishing towers and other builds to make statues. I don't know if the stats are available on any website but I would guess our favor production without event adders surpasses the other alliances because we have done this.

On using gold, whether it events or anything else, don't look to those who use it as the bad guys. If you have a beef with gold then look to the developers to answer your beef. I have no problem with anyone using gold. Anyone with more than 30 cities cannot effectively play the game without the Administrator at a minimum. So if you want a totally free game with no advantages offered for paying a few dollars then look elsewhere. Those games are hard to find and I'd prefer the developers to make some money from gold rather than by other means.....

Good luck to you and your teammates.