The Problem with Gela

Discussion in 'Gela - US51' started by Athenakins, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. Athenakins

    Athenakins Philosopher Player's Council

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    A new PnP popped up this morning by DRAS because he wanted to add some fun back into this world, which I agree is greatly needed. Just reading some of the posts here and Skype, it is clear that the joy of this world is gone. So what is it?

    Is there a problem?
    Yes! While it would be convenient to explain the issues here away on anecdotal grepo drama, if you look at the numbers, I think it is clear that Gela is a problem server.

    Ghost towns
    Gela has a total of 17,214 towns with 2785 being Ghost towns. That is 19% of towns on the server as ghost towns!
    The next closest server Helorus has 9% ghost towns. All other servers are 4% and under. This is significant because it suggests a mass exodus from the server that cannot be explained by Idalium opening, otherwise all other servers would have a similar percentage of ghost towns.

    Inactive Players
    Gela also has the highest percentage of inactive players among conquest worlds at 61% inactive.
    Total Players= 3,588 Active Players = 1399, Inactive = 2,189
    All other CQ worlds are under 50%. The highest of which, other than Gela, being Actium which is stuck in a WW battle.

    My statistics come from http://grepolis.maxtrix.net/world/US

    Why is there a problem?
    I'm not going to get into a political debate about PACTS. These issues develop on every server. I think the problem with Gela goes deeper. I think it has to do with the early availability of myth nukes through the Christmas Event. This server started on 12/10 right in the middle of the Christmas Event. Meaning that we had people coming out of BP who had access to full myth nukes. Anyone starting after the event or who didn't take full advantage of the event was basically screwed.

    Myth Nuke Crazy
    I was looking at my wall, and I noticed something interesting. I had killed a TON of flying myths as a defender, yet, I have been involved in only a handful, under 5, contested sieges. I have been involved in a bunch of contested sieges, (25+ at least, I wish I had a solid number) in Actium, and yet I have a lower percentage of myths on my wall there.

    I looked at traditional OLU (Slingers/hops/horses/Chariots) 17,663 population vs Myths (Manti, Harps, Red, Griffs) 91,472 population. I have been attacked with a significantly higher amount of myths, 83% than other OLU. Of the 91,472 population of myths only 4% of those are Griffs.

    When I look at my wall on Actium (again I expect more Myths here because people have had more time and more events to make them, plus I have been involved in contested sieges and defending World Wonders). OLU 212,876 vs Myth 725,031. Myths are 77%. Griffs are 12% here.

    The Grifs are significant because they aren't offered in the events. You actually have to put in the time to make them.


    Why is the Availability of Myths Early Significant?
    It creates a really uneven playing field early in the server.
    How do I, a player in a small alliance with 0 manti compete with alliances who half of their players have 1K of manti? I don't.

    How is it fun for a player with 1K of manti to continually send attacks, but not get a fight out of me? It's not.

    So we have the issue of both players being dissatisfied with the server.


    The Result
    The result is the high percentage of ghost towns and player inactivity.Regular Grepo drama is makes a bigger impact. Long term the players who are still around are becoming less and less active and engaged on the server.

    This is just anecdotal, but everyone I have spoken with lately, this includes members of alliances I am warring with, is disenchanted with the server. You would think that having over 1K of manti at your finger tips and winning any battle that you engage in would make you happy, but without close contest it breeds discontent.

    We have seen the first type of player leave for greener pastures, but I think that the second type of player will either pick up another server and just sim Gela because they have so much invested here, or they will end up leaving too.

    Growth Not Possible
    My first server opened in November and I started it in January in Ocean 23. I ended up being one of the top fighters on the server. I just don't see how something like that is possible here.
     
    dreww, pegasus6, decky66 and 4 others like this.
  2. Athenakins

    Athenakins Philosopher Player's Council

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    BTW. I'm not a gold hater or an event hater. I 'm a Capitalist. I think Innogames puts out a desirable product, and they should get paid. What I am saying is that, for future reference, maybe worlds shouldn't start like Gela. They have access to more statistic than I do. Perhaps they should do some market research and find a balance. The combination here is too extreme.
     
  3. Sloth Almighty

    Sloth Almighty Peltast

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Perfect synopsis here Athenakins, I think you are pretty spot on here. I too play in Actium and have cross referenced my wall with Actium\Gela, and if you average it out the numbers stack up that event myth access\usage has been high in Gela than Actium.
    I noticed a big drop in activity in Actium when WW landlords hit VM and stayed put. Also noticed activity drop here in Gela.

    But i also play in Helorus and Sparta, and thats still lively. Even Sparta, some 15 months after opening and is 2 weeks from closing it's doors for good, has always remained Active.

    So i think there is good merit for you what you surmise here +repped
     
    Spartans189 likes this.
  4. Athenakins

    Athenakins Philosopher Player's Council

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Going back to my Growth Not Possible section, and my experience on my first server. I don't see Gela growing, as I said above, but bigger then that, it hurts Grepolis as a whole. We diehards will just start another server. No big deal, but for brand new players, this server is not going to be a good example of the Grepolis product.

    I haven't tested it myself, but a friend of mine made a new account to use in Idalium. He said Gela wasn't even an option for worlds that he could join. If this is true, Innogames already knows this is a problem.
     
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  5. Spartans189

    Spartans189 Guest

    inno doesnt care, otherwise they would have improved their product ages ago... like WW for instance.

    im guessing about all they will draw from your thoughtful post would be that they dont sell Griffs yet #Grifftokenscomingsoon
     
    Orphyrion likes this.
  6. DRAS

    DRAS Senior Citizen

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    I'll expand the discussion slightly....

    I started this particular ign sometime in 2013 after wanting to purge myself of the "noobness" of past accounts and make a fresh start. I entered into a period of taking on my first real leadership roles in various worlds at the time. At that time, there were no heroes and certainly no super buffs to generate massive flying units. Heck even the farm I believe was limited to 30. Back then, a manti nuke of 30 or so was something to be marveled at. It was awesome....slamming your 30 manti that took you a month to build and being the hero of the alliance. During this era, siege breaks were more often than not done with LS. Innogames however did eventually start the favor mining option making flyers more easy to acquire and improved cats making wall easier to take down. I did start a new world under the new changes but RL bite me and left grepo.

    So after a long brake, I come back and not only can you build flyers faster and farm favor, Innogames will pretty much give you a manti nuke for what is tantamount to a dollar or two when the events are running---and from what I am seeing, the events are often. So we go from taking about a month to build a manti nuke to now being able to acquire one very easily within 6 hours and a dollar.

    Right before this world, i had played a few months of the en server and got a taste of what the "new grepo" looked like. It was interesting because I was playing with guys (who were generally considered good) who had started playing grepo right around the time I took a brake. I was amazed at how they would actually allow their cities to go under siege, allow the enemy to fill them with dlu to then only send their flyers for the bp. The enemy of course would turn around and do the same. Finally, both sides would run out of flyers and the world got quiet waiting for the next event. I spoke to many of these new players and quickly realized that the type of grepo player (learning under the new system) had drastically changes. "Sniping" was now something you did after your alliance mate got put under siege and everyone launched to break (that's not sniping guys, that is just breaking a siege). Building a wall to them was ludicrous because to them, it was great bp to break a siege on your alliance mate so why would they build a wall? Guys---there was a time in grepo where if you did not build a wall on the front lines then you were were either a super awesome player who knew how to snipe with your home troops correctly.....or crazy. Astonishingly, you are called a "noob" if you build a wall now---unbelievable. And don't get me on sniping....no one in this world is building walls and I have seen ONE true snipe.

    So why do I mention all this above? Well, Gela has handed me and I am sure everyone else more manti than even in the world I mentioned above. It is insane. I have already acquired and used more manti in this world than I think I have ever acquired in all my worlds combined (but to be fair, I last truly played in an era where myths were rare). So now, we can attack our neighbors day and night, not just with faux attacks, but powerful manti nukes able to do real damage.

    ....and here come the bots. So we got manti nukes flying around everywhere smashing dlu (and remember, you get called a noon if you build a wall) and here come the botters......dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge.

    [​IMG]

    It is also my understanding that the robots have drastically improved since I last played grepolis. So now we have flyers for pretty much free and bots that will play the game for you. So you ask, DRAS wouldn't that mean that more people will want to play because it is easier? No, not at all. People started playing this game because it was fun and challenging. It took real commitment and time. Now, players wait around for the next event while their bots fight their battles. I sent over 800 attacks at a player in a day not that long ago and watched his bot dodge every single one. He finally sent me a message indicating I had ruined his night....not because he was playing, but because he was on a date with his wife or something. Let's take a look at that email shall we:

    [​IMG]

    It is not my intention to shame the player above as I did redact his name. However, he was in the top 10 and a Founder of a (the) top alliance at that time...and he quit right after this. I have several more examples of players coming online saying things like "oh, I see you attacked me all night" forgetting that their bot just played for them, lol.

    So what does all this mean DRAS?

    It means that the new Grepolis has produced a lazy generation of players who lack any real commitment or skill. To many, Grepolis is only fun if you are given a bot and a manti. They have no idea what it is like to spend weeks preparing for an op. Now it is, wham bam, and their done. If the game gets hard, they just move on to the next world. They have nothing invested other than some free manti, why not move on?


    There are many good players here in Gela though.....but give those awesome players that many flyers...holy cow. It has created an asymmetrical warfare type environment. The guys in Variant and the Name Changers would be/were awesome in old Grepolis. But in this new environment, they are devastating and players are leaving for these reasons as well.

    I am certainly not the best player in Gela but I am pretty damn good at Grepolis and one of the better players at least here...and I am getting irritated with fighting the bot dodgers, I am irritated that every moron can have a manti nuke, and I am irritated that everyone I attack (with the exception of few) ends up quitting because I ruined sim city for them.

    So in conclusion, stop with the giveaways Innogames so the good players will want to play Grepo again!

    I seemed to have typed more than I realized....I ain't going back to proof that, lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
    dreww and pegasus6 like this.
  7. Athenakins

    Athenakins Philosopher Player's Council

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Yes. Yes. And more yes Dras. I agree with everything you say here. It makes good players lazy and lousy players think they are good.

    Yesterday I had a guy send a cs package of 26 slingers and 1 ls to my city timed 10 minutes ahead of his first support. This same Noob has at least 2 full manti nukes and a Harp nuke. I know because he continually sends them to my city, which has no god assigned, because I guess he thinks he's going to favor farm?

    I actually do have a wall because some opponents like to kill their reds on it. One of them got tired of these beauties dying so he sent 200 slingers with 10 cats, just 10, to take out my 20 wall with dlu behind it.

    These are both top ranked players in top ranked alliances and not SDR.
     
  8. Joseph Nieves

    Joseph Nieves Polemarch

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    The fliers have been abundant. This world started during an event and for the most part we haven't had much downtime in between them. I have never had to build so many DLU to protect a siege, and it seems like there is never enough. In my first world (also a speed 2 conquest) we were months in and a lot of the stacked conquests had 5k DLU or less. Granted this was before rebalancing, there was a max wall, and flier nukes would take a month at least to rebuild, but still. I think the first conquest on this world had 5k DLU or less and that quickly became not enough to hold anything but internals. About 2 months in I heard about a siege with about 100k DLU being broken. That is insane and I have never seen that happen this early on. Some hotly contested WW cities don't lose that many in just a few hours. On the bright side the Easter event has no myths. So maybe the myths will becomes less common for a few weeks and players will finally learn how to live without them [​IMG]
     
  9. Orphyrion

    Orphyrion Hoplite

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    The Easter event has no myths? That's a shame. I really have come to like the big myth tokens.
     
  10. Joseph Nieves

    Joseph Nieves Polemarch

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    It's only regular units from what I have heard from guys playing on the beta server. I am pretty excited after hearing that. Some people will be so lost on this world though. Myths have been so common that people don't use them just to break sieges, but to farm cities and clear turtles. What will they do when they actually have to use OLU here [​IMG]
     
  11. Kyllmen

    Kyllmen Archon

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    The event gives no myths, but gives DLU tokens. The pace of conquests will drastically change after this event, simmers will not be able to break sieges on them, while others will be able to hold said sieges against any leftover myths from the previous event.

    I'm getting excited too [​IMG]
     
  12. Spartans189

    Spartans189 Guest

    by the sound of it gela is more myth heavy than actium... i can support my own sieges there with 100k dlu and i know that isnt good enough to hold for more than a few hours on a 12 hr siege on us45. there have been multiple sieges broken on that server (with alliance wide participation) that saw sieges of 200-250k dlu fall short of conquering the cities, these happened within the first 3-4 months so its not like everyone had 100 cities each to generate and favor farm that many myths

    the speedy replacement of myths with event tokens is a problem. idk how you as a mod are just noticing this, maybe you can get in touch with the real game changers at inno since you have some pull
     
  13. mohitsenapaty

    mohitsenapaty Citizen

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    I believe event should have myth tokens.. but just harpies and not manticores. Because you can counter harpies well with high level chiron.

    In actium, i have chiron at level 20, which give me 594 hops with max warehouse in about 7 hours (with pg) on a level 30 barracks.
     
  14. Bloodtyrant

    Bloodtyrant Philosopher

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    My first world was US Marathon. Myths were very rare there. The game was more honest with LS/OLU Nukes and DLU/Biremes. Walls were high in the DLU cities. It was a lot more fun. Nowadays I still prefer that way to play and stay away from building Myths. In fact I would be quite happy to play in a world were Myths did not even exist.
     
  15. Joseph Nieves

    Joseph Nieves Polemarch

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Mohit, just want to point out that with the speed difference it would take 14 hours here then.

    Yeah Spartan I think it's definitely more myth heavy when you consider Actium is speed 4 and Gela is half that. Also I have been saying this well before I became a mod. Like I said the next event has no fliers so could be a start of bringing back some more balance in game. I am a forum mod, the devs aren't on the forum. So I have as much contact with them as you do.
     
    Spartans189 likes this.
  16. mohitsenapaty

    mohitsenapaty Citizen

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    harpy rewards will also give less harpies in a speed 2 world. I played earlier when there were fewer events and had harpy tokens only. I felt there was a nice balance then. Both high walls and low wall options were viable
     
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  17. Irontoast

    Irontoast Peltast

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2015
    I don't mind myth tokens. I just don't think tokens should give you 48-60 manti or 120 harpies apiece.12 manti and 24 harpy seemed fair though
     
  18. Orphyrion

    Orphyrion Hoplite

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    I feel like if they eliminate the myth tokens entirely and give everyone DLU tokens then it will completely shift the balance of power in both conquest and revolt worlds, but especially conquest. It's going to be impossible to break a siege now in a CQ world, even more so when everyone's myths are used up. And we all know how poorly LS nuke siege breaks always end up.

    I think they need to keep the myth tokens in the event if they are going to give DLU tokens out, or at least scale back one of them a bit. Preferably myth tokens. I think that would be fair.
     
    Spartans189 likes this.
  19. Kyllmen

    Kyllmen Archon

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    The only imbalance the end of myth tokens in events will bring is to change they way sieges are broken.

    The Easter Event will give away Light Ships. Instead of having mythical siege breaks, we'll all have to use these LS tokens. And they won't go as poorly as they usually do, because LS siege breaks will be so much easier thanks to higher LS numbers built up in a shorter time.
     
  20. Spartans189

    Spartans189 Guest

    while thats a good way to limit the number of myths you could store it wouldnt curb myth usage during events. i cap to the number you can buy of each token would be an easy fix but inno wouldnt want to cap its best sellers
     

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