Newbie Help/Questions

Infa Red

Philosopher
Hi to all, this is my first post, and also I am very new to the game. I have some questions and just hope I am posting in the correct place. If not, please advise best place for questions that are world specific (I guess). To keep things streamlined, I will just ask one question per thread.

I am in world Sigma. Basically cause when signing up to play the game, it was "recommended". Though I now wonder whats the difference between the worlds and why so many ? But anyway.... hopefully some other friendly players can help me out.

This threads question is, I just now am seeing how population works, and the need for spaces, and them people to use for work on creating and expanding buildings, troops, etc.. BUT with this, I am predicting a problem one day if the farm level has a cap. Because as it is I am always having to expand my farm just so I can recruit enough troops to properly take over the farming villages. Though this seems ok at this instance, the math isn't adding up (imo). Here you loose troops in battle (obviously) and if this game is to last a very long time, I don't see having enough farming levels to supply the troops I would need over a very long time.

I know I eventually can and will have other cities, but even then, it seems kinda dismal. Recently I took control over a farming village with 300 Slingers, 80 Hoplites and 80 Horsemen that I had to defeat. As suggested on the Wiki, I sent 140 Slingers, and lost 133 of them. The next farming village I am currently building up to take over has 150 Swords, 150 Archers and 75 Hoplites with a Level 20 Wall that I'll have to defeat with 175 Horseman and I'll lose 166 of them. To supply this, I can barely expand my farm quick enough to keep up with the solders I need along with ones used for building things. This is just the beginning of the game, and I can't see how it will last unless the Farm expansion level is unlimited. If it is limited, then how does this end up working ? How do I have enough people to last through all my troop lose and more recruits along with building stuff ?

Is there nothing to worry about ? How does this play out ? And is there something I could be doing now that you can suggest that helps with this and is "the way" to do it ?

Thanks for all help in advance !
 

HadesHeadies

Guest
When your troops die the population they used is returned to your max population, don't worry bro.
 
As Hades said, when units die or building are demolished, then pop is returned, not lost.

There are a few ways to increase your population, as well as maxing your farm (level 40), when you have academy at 22 you can research plow, which gives you an extra 200 population. Thermal baths, which gives an extra 10%. Also land expansion can increase pop by a max of 300 per city, these become available during events like grepolymics and pumpkin hunts.

Other ways to help with pop is look at the building in your city, you don't need to max everything as that eats into your population, so for example after I've finished building thermal baths I knock my senate back down from 24 to 9 to free up some pop.
 

Infa Red

Philosopher
When your troops die the population they used is returned to your max population, don't worry bro.
As Hades said, when units die or building are demolished, then pop is returned, not lost.

There are a few ways to increase your population, as well as maxing your farm (level 40), when you have academy at 22 you can research plow, which gives you an extra 200 population. Thermal baths, which gives an extra 10%. Also land expansion can increase pop by a max of 300 per city, these become available during events like grepolymics and pumpkin hunts.

Other ways to help with pop is look at the building in your city, you don't need to max everything as that eats into your population, so for example after I've finished building thermal baths I knock my senate back down from 24 to 9 to free up some pop.
Thanks guys. Got'cha ! And hey, wow, great idea about knocking a building back down after you got it to a level to qualify for something else. lol, never thought of that.

I guess I don't understand exactly how this population thing vs actual people work. Cause yea, now that you guys said something, I went in and looked at my farm. I have plenty of population (it says), but my issue is I never have enough actual people to actually use. So, ok, I get my population back, (as in the "spaces" I guess ?), but what I've been meaning is, so far, the only way I seem to get actual "people" in those "spaces" is to expand the farm. And its only like 60- 80 people each time. Then after I use them, even after troops die, etc.. I don't have the actual "people" back. Just the space. So how do I gain actual people in the free "spaces" I have once I can no longer expand my farm ? And if there is a way, then crap, I need to be doing that now, cause I never have enough actual bodies up in my place.
 
Upgrading the farm will increase the amount of free population not the number of troops.

The best way to get more units (when you have the free farm spaces to do so), is to recruit troops in your barracks and build boats in your harbor. When you first construct your barracks, you can recruit swordsmen, when you start up grading you academy, you can research different types of troops which you also build in your barracks.

The are other ways to get a few troops are:

Get them from your farming villages, they must be upgraded to LV 3 first. Watch the mood when taking troops as they may revolt.

Some island quests offer troops as a reward. Make sure that you have enough free spaces for the troops being offered before accepting the reward, or it will be wasted.

If you have Athena as your god, then you can cast patroness on your city and she will give you 5 random guys.

If you have Zues as your god, you can cast divine sign on your city and will receive 1 chariot.
 
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Infa Red

Philosopher
.....Edit..... *See Original Post # 5*
Hi MissChievousPixie, and thanks so much for the detailed info and the time you took to chime in to help me. Ok, I've figured out my mind block.. lol, I was in my mind separating "spaces" from actual people. And I was trying to find my actual people, thinking like Sim City or something, as in, ok, these are the spaces, now I want to fill the spaces with people. I THOUGHT the "spaces" were what I seen when I clicked on the actual Farm itself and seen my "total population" thing. And I THOUGHT the actual people were the number I see on my main page at the top... Haha.. Ok, I get it all now. I always have people, period, and the number are the SPACES I have left to fill. I can fill them spaces with either building space, or with troops.. And NOW it makes sense why a Horsedude takes 3 spaces... cause a horse is about the size of 2 people, plus you got the person riding the horse = 3. I was always thinking it took me 3 people to "build" a horse, or it took 4 people to build the senate this time, etc... LOL Dang, I was thinking building things always were causing people to die in the process of the build (you know dangers, etc..) ha, so I was wondering why in the world does it take 6 of my people permanently to build this ?

But NOW I get it, it is SPACE, it is all about SPACE, not people. Grepolis should really make that more clear. Coming from every other game like this, usually when there is a number next to a icon of PEOPLE, that means how many people you have in your city. The whole thing confused me.

Thanks for everyone clearing this up for me, and helping me understand. But to be honest, my first issue still remains, I just need to reword it. But it seems as if I never have enough space AND I predict Space being the main issue in growing past a certain point ? No ? Right now my Farm is at 23 (over half of the limit already), and never once have I NOT been down to zero spaces after I do what needs to be done and have my troops built up. And have to constantly keep upgrading my Farm just to do anything. So at the point where I can no longer get more spaces by upgrading my Farm after Level 40 Farm, Plow and Thermal Baths, BUT yet I still want/need troops, boats, bigger better buildings, etc.. how will I do anything ?

Or is that the point where you just say, hey, this city is as big as it can be, and I need another city ? But I still can't see being able to build a strong enough city with a cap at Farm Level 40. I hope I am just overlooking something or not comprehending something as I should. lol
 
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Infa Red

Philosopher
Did chirality teach you that?
:p Although I have no clue what or who that is, I can read between the lines and know it is hilarious. Honestly, I was just going by video game sense, been playing games since 1983 and never before have I seen a game put a number next to people, but not have that number represent the actual people in your city, but yet represent the "space" said people or other things will take up.

It would make more sense if it was called "Land" or "free land space" or "growth room" or something like that, and had a land chunk icon next to the number instead of humans, considering you can put something other than humans in that space.
 

Jaylea.Mamut

Guest
Think of the farm spaces as enough food to feed your people, not as the people themselves. If a soldier dies, you can redirect the resource to another person.
 
But to be honest, my first issue still remains, I just need to reword it. But it seems as if I never have enough space AND I predict Space being the main issue in growing past a certain point ? No ? Right now my Farm is at 23 (over half of the limit already), and never once have I NOT been down to zero spaces after I do what needs to be done and have my troops built up. And have to constantly keep upgrading my Farm just to do anything. So at the point where I can no longer get more spaces by upgrading my Farm after Level 40 Farm, Plow and Thermal Baths, BUT yet I still want/need troops, boats, bigger better buildings, etc.. how will I do anything ?

Or is that the point where you just say, hey, this city is as big as it can be, and I need another city ? But I still can't see being able to build a strong enough city with a cap at Farm Level 40. I hope I am just overlooking something or not comprehending something as I should. lol
The overall pop is capped. Once farm is at lv 40, thermal baths has been built, plow researched and land expansions been applied (300 per city) then you are at your limit. However the same issue applies to everyone, so we all have a level playing field. As the game works on ratios, if there was no limit, then anyone joining the game later would always be at a massive disadvantage.

So what you should do is take more cities. The more cities you have, the more you can build.

Coming back to the whole game works on ratios thingy again, you should specialize each city. So for example, if you want to clear the harbor of another city and it is defended by 120 biremes, sending 50 LS from 2 cities (100 LS in total), will fail to clear the harbor. Sending 100 LS from one city will clear the harbor and you'll have 5 LS remaining. So by tailoring each city, will mean you will use less pop overall pop.

When building units, take into account the population that they cost v the strength of the unit. For example Erinys have an attack value of 1210 ranged attack. So on face value, they would look like a good offensive unit to build. However once broken down by population cost, they have an average attack per farm space (AA/F) of 22. Where as slingers have a AA/F of 23 and again they are a ranged attack. So in in purely offensive city, then a slinger nuke will be a better use of population.

Also by looking at what you need to build in each city will be able to save yourself some pop. Things like taking senate back down will help you.
 
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Infa Red

Philosopher
This is my first time being attacked. It says they will be here in 1hr 30min (5:43pm Pacific USA time), and I am clueless as far as what to do.

I see "attack" buttons and protocols to do on the game, but no where do I see "defense" buttons or anything. So what do I do to prepare ? Just sit here and wait for the outcome ? Or are there things to do ? Like do I have to set up "defense" troops and boats ? If so, how ?

Also, there is just a question mark as far as what the city is attacking with. And I am not missing any silver out of my cave nor did I get a report. I'm totally panicked and clueless here. I spend weeks building up my city, I really don't want to lose it. What is my best approach to this attack ?

Thanks -

Think of the farm spaces as enough food to feed your people, not as the people themselves. If a soldier dies, you can redirect the resource to another person.
Yes, this is a good way to look at it and a great analogy. Also, hence why a horseman takes up 3 "spaces", because horses eat about as much as 3 people do.

Thanks for this input Jaylea, its helpful.

The overall pop is capped. Once farm is at lv 40, thermal baths has been built, plow researched and land expansions been applied (300 per city) then you are at your limit. However the same issue applies to everyone, so we all have a level playing field. As the game works on ratios, if there was no limit, then anyone joining the game later would always be at a massive disadvantage.

So what you should do is take more cities. The more cities you have, the more you can build.

Coming back to the whole game works on ratios thingy again, you should specialize each city. So for example, if you want to clear the harbor of another city and it is defended by 120 biremes, sending 50 LS from 2 cities (100 LS in total), will fail to clear the harbor. Sending 100 LS from will city will clear the harbor and you'll have 5 LS remaining. So by tailoring each city, will mean you will use less pop overall pop.

When building units, take into account the population that they cost v the strength of the unit. For example Erinys have an attack value of 1210 ranged attack. So on face value, they would look like a good offensive unit to build. However once broken down by population cost, they have an average attack per farm space (AA/F) of 22. Where as slingers have a AA/F of 23 and again they are a ranged attack. So in in purely offensive city, then a slinger nuke will be a better use of population.

Also by looking at what you need to build in each city will be able to save yourself some pop. Things like taking senate back down will help you.
Excellent advice ! Thanks for the time you took to help me on this. I do understand everything you are saying as far as the subject particular to the thread (farm space). But one thing that confused me is a sidetrack note of why 100 ships from 2 cities does not equal the power of 100 ships from one city.

If you could explain why that works that way in more detail, and elaborate on it a bit, thad be great. If not, I understand.

Everything else, I get. Specialized cities make sense. Farm space cap makes sense, etc..

Thanks again !
 
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Draqone

Guest
Merged threads.

About being attacked, please check out the questions forum and the wiki for info. You can also try to google some results, it usually helps. A good start is to find out about and use militia.
 

Jaylea.Mamut

Guest
Yes, this is a good way to look at it and a great analogy. Also, hence why a horseman takes up 3 "spaces", because horses eat about as much as 3 people do.
That's how I looked at it, and it seemed to make the most sense. It doesn't quite cover everything, I know, but pretty close.

But one thing that confused me is a sidetrack note of why 100 ships from 2 cities does not equal the power of 100 ships from one city.
If you could explain why that works that way in more detail, and elaborate on it a bit, thad be great. If not, I understand.
I am interested to hear that answer, too, that confused me as well.

And like Draqone says, their are a lot of guides for being attacked, but definitely let your alliance know as soon as you can. Your alliance may be small, but they should be able to send support. I hope it's not too late to give you this info.
 
I am interested to hear that answer, too, that confused me as well.
Same. I know that the attack value to compared to the defense value and the units lost/killed are worked out using ratio's but I have no idea what the actual ratio's are.

Think of it kinda like this, if a good fighter, lets call him Steve got attacked by 10 men and they fought him 1-1 then Steve would win each fight because he is much stronger then each individual man.

If Steve fought all 10 of them at the same time, he would lose due to the combined strength of his attackers. However he would still manage to beat a good portion of the attackers because Steve is a good fighter.

If poor old Steve got jumped by 100 men, he would get taken down quickly and not be able to take out any of his attackers as he'd be swamped.

So this works in the same kinda way. If you are attacking and send in multiple small attacks, then your units will be outnumbered and not fight as effectively. If you send the same number but in one attack, then they won't be as disadvantaged. If you send in a much larger attack, then you will swamp the opposing forces and will not take as much damage.
 
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Infa Red

Philosopher
Same. I know that the attack value to compared to the defense value and the units lost/killed are worked out using ratio's but I have no idea what the actual ratio's are.

Think of it kinda like this, if a good fighter, lets call him Steve got attacked by 10 men and they fought him 1-1 then Steve would win each fight because he is much stronger then each individual man.

If Steve fought all 10 of them at the same time, he would lose due to the combined strength of his attackers. However he would still manage to beat a good portion of the attackers because Steve is a good fighter.

If poor old Steve got jumped by 100 men, he would get taken down quickly and not be able to take out any of his attackers as he'd be swamped.

So this works in the same kinda way. If you are attacking and send in multiple small attacks, then your units will be outnumbered and not fight as effectively. If you send the same number but in one attack, then they won't be as disadvantaged. If you send in a much larger attack, then you will swamp the opposing forces and will not take as much damage.
Ok, somewhat got it soaked in a bit here. But this example and ratio you speak of would of course only be applicable if the 50 boats from each city arrived at different times, right ? Cause if they both arrive at the same time, then how is 100 not 100, who cares where they originated from. Your still getting jumped by 100.

In other words, if Steve (lol - hopefully with some teeth left) gets jumped by the 100 men at the same time, not 1 on 1, (vs 1 on 1) sure I see the point. BUT same scenario, except each of them men came to the "beat Steve up party" from different locations, but got their fists to Steves face at the same time, how is it any different of a ratio ? Now I agree, if they get to him at different times, even slight, then that would make the ration different and more in his favor.

So I wonder if the game takes that into consideration if you were to orchestrate the 50 ships from 2 different cities example to land precisely at the exact same second to the enemies ground, would or would not it be equal to 100 ships from one city ?
 
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Jaylea.Mamut

Guest
Landing exactly at the same time is all but impossible due to the random anti-timer thingy... But, in the rare occurrence this happens, I wonder what would happen. I am still confused, I am going to try reading this when I am more alert and see if it makes more sense.
 
If the two attacks land on the same second, they get classed as 2 separate fights and are calculated as such, not as one super attack. It doesn't take a full second to calculate the out come of a fight, and the first fight will have been calculated by time the next one arrives.

So think of it as Steve lives in a parallel universe, 1 second in his world, is the same as a week in ours. So if we were to watch Steve get attacked by 50 men and a millisecond later being attacked by another 50 men, it may seem fast to us. However Steve has had time to go out for a night out with friends, watch the lord of the ring trilogy and bake a cake before the next lot of 50 men appeared.

*note* support can also arrive on the same second as attack(s) the order in which things are processed is the same as it is listed in your troop movements.

I have no idea (but would love to know) how the order of ties is decided.
 

Infa Red

Philosopher
If the two attacks land on the same second, they get classed as 2 separate fights and are calculated as such, not as one super attack. It doesn't take a full second to calculate the out come of a fight, and the first fight will have been calculated by time the next one arrives.

So think of it as Steve lives in a parallel universe, 1 second in his world, is the same as a week in ours. So if we were to watch Steve get attacked by 50 men and a millisecond later being attacked by another 50 men, it may seem fast to us. However Steve has had time to go out for a night out with friends, watch the lord of the ring trilogy and bake a cake before the next lot of 50 men appeared.

*note* support can also arrive on the same second as attack(s) the order in which things are processed is the same as it is listed in your troop movements.

I have no idea (but would love to know) how the order of ties is decided.
Ahhhh, ok, that makes sense, I get it. But now you threw a monkey wrench in as far as "Support" lol. And now I have more questions - sorry. But "Troop Movements". What and where is that ? And what is listed there ?

And also, so what your saying is Support landing on the same second as a attack will work correctly as intended support ? Or will not work as intended support ?

Me personally would think to get support there early. But I was reading somewhere where guys were saying to get things timed out to the second for certain reasons. So between that and what your saying, I am all confused. Add that to me not knowing the game well enough and being a rookie, and oh god, I'm a hot mess :eek: (Hopefully these guys were exaggerating a touch, and just close within reason is best ?) For instance Jaylea brought up this anti-timer thing (thnx J, btw) and due to that, wouldn't it be wisest to make sure everything (support, attacks, etc..) arrived early, and early equal to the max amount of time the Anti-Timer is allowed to offset things ? Therefore you will know you will at worst arrive xx amount of time early. At best, you arrive on time. No ?

Sorry Steve, but you do not apply to any scenario or "cut aways" for this example :p Plus you need to heal, we will call on you when next needed.:D
 

Jaylea.Mamut

Guest
I know your support needs to show up after your attack, because otherwise your support and attack will fight. It seems odd to me, you'd think they'd look up and go "Oh, you're wearing the same uniform as me." "Yeah dude, we are from the same city." "Ok, let's not attack each other then."
 

Infa Red

Philosopher
I know your support needs to show up after your attack, because otherwise your support and attack will fight. It seems odd to me, you'd think they'd look up and go "Oh, you're wearing the same uniform as me." "Yeah dude, we are from the same city." "Ok, let's not attack each other then."
LOL, are you serious ? Ok, this I didn't know. Good to know, thanks ! Jeez, how is this even possible ? Cause, if the "fights/attacks/defense" only last not even one second. Then isn't the fight over by the time your support gets there ? How does the support's "help stats" get calculated into the event ?

Oh man, now I am totally confused -