Annnd Boom Goes the Dynamite

Alright, so it looks like some new things have been happening since I left. Which brings me to two announcements.

1) Apologies to MS for my abrupt departure, but Chris is a great guy and will fill my role just fine.

2) Zarkoff gets man of the year for standing up to Paul and leaving. Which brings me too...


Boom goes the dynamite! It was only a matter of time before Paul got put flat out on his rear end with that attitude. Though the ending was anti-climatic. RIP TVM.
 

kylehob

Strategos
Alright, so it looks like some new things have been happening since I left. Which brings me to two announcements.

1) Apologies to MS for my abrupt departure, but Chris is a great guy and will fill my role just fine.

2) Zarkoff gets man of the year for standing up to Paul and leaving. Which brings me too...


Boom goes the dynamite! It was only a matter of time before Paul got put flat out on his rear end with that attitude. Though the ending was anti-climatic. RIP TVM.
Do you know why Zarkoff left TVM?
 

Paul S.

Guest
Paul was betrayed is what it was. Zark was doing something that not only were behind my back, but over stepping his role he agreed to, left me out of communication on many things and then on top of that, I also made some mistakes and couldn't be "active enough" and I didn't "support or help anyone fight" (which was far from the truth). I called out Zark on his crap. He cried like a baby and left. However, the plan he had (along with all else involved) went through and now everyone's laughing at me because I "lost".

Sorry, but I've only lost one city while I'm online and that's to chunki. Serky took Irkangchaz while I was at work. Everyone's saying I'm "too young to lead", meanwhile, everyone voted for me to be founder and to lead, and I even asked TVM if I should step down. Responses were "no" or "if you think you need to".

This is what happens, when someone much younger than most, creates something far better than most in a very quick time.

Zark got his land, Ely got their people, and those that didn't like me (because I call people out on their crap, just as I'm called out), are all now like "paul you suck hope this helps you in real life blah blah go play another game".

Sorry, I forgot loyalty, honesty, and trust weren't part of this game and all pacts and agreements mean nothing.

But hey whatever, it's just a game. Good job to those who still can only beat me through betrayal lol. You're not that good.
Great game to THC, first and ONLY alliance to actually be right there and able to actually compete with me and my team.

To those who are still friends of mine, good luck. And remember what really happened.
 
Paul, I've been in this situation before when I had my first top 12. I was 16, pretty cocky, and warmongering in En Theta. I also was a slow grower back then because I didn't gold or really farm for some reason. Eventually, due to my constant fighting attitude, my alliance became concerned and ousted me. There are some key differences like that we actually won our wars without help under my watch, and we beat some pretty notable teams in the top 12 despite not having a single player in the top 50. Like you, we also were 2nd across the board at our true height. But its unfair to hold you to these standards to be honest as you never have been on that kind of world. The US has never experienced that kind of fight where the core and ring had enough players active to house multiple top 12 alliances and where the top 25 teams were still very good in many instances.

By all means, I encourage you to keep playing. But that's because i'd like a match with you after the fall out. But even if not, I often have found peace by returning after a loss. Each experience has been a lesson and its helped me carry in game and life. If you want genuine advice, I think you alienated your allies and team mates and this set up the fall. Zark saw it coming and acted. You also need to be active to keep the respect of your team. Past merits can only carry you so far and when most people of note already question that, then you're always in trouble.

THC was definitely not the only alliance to challenge you bud. MS did a pretty good job when I was there and I had nothing to do with that one. Elysium probably would have done well vs you too even with LG in VM. I think you should maybe step back and assess what happened. I went from a crazy loud mouthed leader to a crazy loud mouthed leader with sometimes soft spoken tendencies and could fight very well. So there's always room for improvement.
 

Lairo

Guest
Paul was betrayed is what it was. Zark was doing something that not only were behind my back, but over stepping his role he agreed to, left me out of communication on many things and then on top of that, I also made some mistakes and couldn't be "active enough" and I didn't "support or help anyone fight" (which was far from the truth). I called out Zark on his crap. He cried like a baby and left. However, the plan he had (along with all else involved) went through and now everyone's laughing at me because I "lost".

Sorry, but I've only lost one city while I'm online and that's to chunki. Serky took Irkangchaz while I was at work. Everyone's saying I'm "too young to lead", meanwhile, everyone voted for me to be founder and to lead, and I even asked TVM if I should step down. Responses were "no" or "if you think you need to".

This is what happens, when someone much younger than most, creates something far better than most in a very quick time.

Zark got his land, Ely got their people, and those that didn't like me (because I call people out on their crap, just as I'm called out), are all now like "paul you suck hope this helps you in real life blah blah go play another game".

Sorry, I forgot loyalty, honesty, and trust weren't part of this game and all pacts and agreements mean nothing.

But hey whatever, it's just a game. Good job to those who still can only beat me through betrayal lol. You're not that good.
Great game to THC, first and ONLY alliance to actually be right there and able to actually compete with me and my team.

To those who are still friends of mine, good luck. And remember what really happened.
Ya know I think I've held my tongue long enough. Paul as you clearly have a selective memory, or your just in fantasy land most of the time instead of paying attention to what's going on I'm going to have to take it upon myself to refresh your memory as a non-biased observer to all of these events.

1st You keep saying you lost your cool bc TSF came back. TSF came back bc you lost your cool, flipped out on all of us and started putting words in his mouth.

2nd As soon as your merger with the VS was complete and your ranking points got somewhat close to that of Elysium's you started making claims about how we weren't doing anything, and how you had "Won the West." You then went on to say that if we didn't give in to your list of demands that you would turn the whole world against us and that we would crumble under all the attacks. Very Scary btw.

3rd During one of your MANY temper tantrums, Zarkoff got on and very calmly put the whole situation to rest, clearly showing he was better at Diplomatic Relations than you.

4th After your wreck you just went AWOL, someone had to step up and point the Alliance in a productive direction. It might as well be someone who is both interested in the betterment of the Alliance and has the intellect to make it happen. But I guess if that person didn't wait days to get your approval they are just overstepping.

5th It shows very clearly how many people agreed with what Zarkoff was doing, bc when he left they followed. It wasn't some scheme or a big plot against you it was simply recognition that you were in over your head. Its not betrayal to refuse to blindly follow your leader over a cliff and its not loyalty to do so. As far as Honesty you were well warned if the pact wasn't working it would be dissolved, so by dissolving the pact we were being quite Honest.

6th You keep going on and on and on about how you can only be beaten by "BETRAYAL." I really don't know where you get this your not very effective in Battles. All you care about is ranking points you think they're actually worth more than Bragging Rights. The second you make have room in your Alliance for Sims and Inactives you've already lost. Another thing is that its not our fault that people realize your trying to captain a sinking ship before we have a chance to help you finish sinking it.

7th You keep saying every pacted Alliance betrays you, your the hardest person to have a pact with. You whine and whine until we can't stand you. Your a Dictator in your Alliance and when you thought you could take us you couldn't resist trying to order us around. You brought all of this on yourself, and Idk what happened with all those other Alliances, but the common link is you! So continue to blame the whole world for your mistakes, see how far that gets you.
 

Paul S.

Guest
If I was a dictator, I for one wouldn't ever have a council, and two when I ASKED EVERYONE in TVM if I should step down. The Answers were "no" or "if you think you need to". NO ONE said yes. Secondly, I NEVER threatened war against Ely. Try again. And Zarkoff did will with a lot I'll give him that. But like for instance, with the MS cease fire. Me and him both agreed I'd handle it. I Pmed JMW. He responded. I responded back. Went to bed, woke up, wasn't responded to, went to work, came back, now the CF was in full and terms already made. But I was "inactive" right? No. Zark at that point went behind my back and INSTEAD of telling me he was also Pming them, Just did it, and THEN told everyone what was going on (although he got approval from the council, almost everyone who had been fighting that war before the merge was screwed).

And I whine? No I call out. Sorry if what I say doesn't agree with you because you're slipping.

And really, your whole post Lairo really proves what I said about it. I'm hard to keep a pact with? Really? Then why didn't you drop us the second I annoyed you guys? And don't tell me it's because "you wanted to uphold the pact agreement" because that was made very clear just recently what you all thought of that. In which, the pact was made for a TVM and Ely merge. Not Zarkoff's november rain. In which, he also said "I'm not recruiting but they know who they are that I'll take".. Really?

Zark left because I called him out and he couldn't get his way.

If people wanted me to step down and let Zark lead, all they had to do was say so. But no, betraying me is a LOT better than that.

And with him being more calm: Of course he was. For one he's got nothing to lose. He's already won once, and secondly, no matter what he does, his people from VS will follow him. Me? I don't have that luxury and I work real hard for my people.

And my last point. Everyone says I harbor inactives and sitters.
http://grepointel.com/alliance.php?server=us31&an=Elysium&rt=points

^ Who harbors inactives and sitters? I understand some of them are in VM, but a LOT aren't. And I don't build my cities, I build troops. Everyone asked me to take time away from the game, and that's what I did, I let my leadership take over, so I could sit back and manage from a distance and build defense for my people who were hurting and gift cities to those moving south.

But apparently me doing that and listening to my people makes me a terrible leader. Funny how without me, Ely wouldn't have the people they just got from what I built. And from my leaders prior to the merge. It all started after the merge. And a lot of people agree on that. I'm not blaming the world here. I'm blaming you all for being cowardly and dishonest. You want to get rid of me? Do it fair and square. But good luck in doing so (when I care, as I don't anymore).


But since everyone is so bent on removing me from the world now, I guess someone else will have to take over the milestones thread here. So whoever wants that can Pm me.
 
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Paul, being honest, a lot of my council found your constant demands and attempts to change pact terms tiring. There were several moments when they even questioned your loyalty to the pact. I think the general consensus in our council was that you would probably try to kick us if we went down. Calling out over and over again over trivial things is considered whining by many people.

Paul, without you, Ely would have just taken over O45 and recruited in it. Not much would have changed except maybe some of lesser TVM players might not have gotten their chance to shine. Without our pact, Ely would have just steam rolled TVM within a couple of weeks of being out of BP. People asking you to take time back from the game is a pretty good sign that you've lost your alliance. Overall, you're simply neglecting two things.

1) The underlying social contract of the alliance. This means that you can have all the power and players, but in order to succeed you need organization, head lining players, and clear cut leadership. TVM had the second one. The rest was always a mess.

2) No matter how "good" your team is, you can't alienate your allies and team. It'll always come back to haunt you.

Blaming others for your failure here is just closing the door on other opportunities. Its truly sad that you feel this way. Its even sadder that you don't seem to learn from your mistakes.
 

Paul S.

Guest
Oh I've learned. I always learn. The point is, if you don't want me to do something or to be in a position then tell me. Fighting back with me, does nothing. And no, I wasn't ever going to fight Ely and betray the pact.

Anyways, it's over. So let it be done. I'm just glad people have enough respect of me and the people I had to give them a chance.
 
That's good. But Paul, lets get one thing straight. While your idea of betrayal may be different from mine, i'm willing to grant that's a possibility. If I had caught you plotting to turn alliances on us because you didn't like how diplomacy was going. Elysium would have been at war. I think you do owe a formal apology to Elysium for that regard as they put up with all that and never attacked you. That is much more than I can say for myself. Also, I think most people learned that verbally fighting back with you is to their advantage.

I encourage you to try again on the next new world. Just don't land near us. Bad things happen to people that land near us. :D
 

Paul S.

Guest
I've already apologized to Ely before they took in everyone and caused even more of a mess of this. That was the final icing to the cake.
 

Paul S.

Guest
I mean, it kinda is a big biggie.. But okay.. Not everyday this happens on this level.. lol.

Anyways, although you did really upset me too, I do want to apologize to you for how I handled your return and such. Still a cool guy.
 

darkvayne

Guest
Paul, as a former member of your team, while things weren't bad under your leadership, things really got done when Zark took the lead for those few weeks there. The CF with MS freed up a lot to focus on other things. (And while you were in talks with them, the only word any of us heard on it was from Zark) Headway was being made on the attack me front, for the first time other than harassing him since you kicked him. THC and AGO were being dealt with. And I jumped ship after Zark did because that is where the actives went. When Zark left, and I lost a city and a siege to AGO, and couldn't get the support I asked for, I realized where the active and helpful players were. I know I even posted in the forums about the lack of aid from others prior to the VS merger, and that issue went away with VS joining us, shoot, Zark even set it up so that people not near the front were assigned to aiding those on the front who needed it. And the merge with Elysium was something that none of us knew about until AFTER joining with Zark, and we were explicitly told to NOT tell anyone who wasn't already in. It says a lot about the player and their team when they're sought after by several of the top alliances. And don't tell me it was false because we all saw the mails. Honestly, you were alright as a leader, but you're no end game leader. It's pretty sad when the leader of an alliance is not even in the top half of the rankings of his members. I understand RL getting in the way and all that, but seriously, step down if you have to. Yes, Zark stepped on toes, but honestly the people whining and crying about Zark were the people who weren't worth their weight in game, the ones who always asked for help and never gave it. Had you been able to swallow your pride and let Zark do his thing, TVM had a shot at end game, but your pride and self-righteousness had to get in the way.
 
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Loses happen, its what helps us grow. Sometimes you need one to come back down to earth. My suggestion is keep a cooler head and focus on oping effectively. TVM could have been a huge power house rival to Ely but some of the little things kept it back at times.

I'm sorry if I upset you, but with what I saw, I did have to act on it.

Dark, don't insult the small fry leaders. Before I started taking my personal game seriously. I held east En Theta by the throat. I also held much of En Ithica and all of Delos. All as a guy who tallied less than 40k points. You can be small and be a good leader. That being said, the BEST leaders, do lead from the front.
 
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Paul S.

Guest
Dark, as I said, no one asked me to step down and no one thought I should. You included. In which, I also told everyone I lead from the middle because 1) I don't build cities, I build troops & boats, and 2) so that my smaller people don't feel like they're getting left behind and feel worthless. Towards the end, most of my troops and boats were defensive sent as LTS to GoV, Wallclock, and others in the MOST heated areas. And what I sent saved a LOT of cities from being taken. When GoV retired and returned them, I had about 1/5 left of what I sent him. Ask Rival how much it was because he had a CS incoming (or was trying to hold a CS, don't remember right now) once I got them back and I sent them his way.

And the merge with Elysium was something that none of us knew about until AFTER joining with Zark, and we were explicitly told to NOT tell anyone who wasn't already in.
^ Hellloooooooo. There it is. What I've been talking about the whole time. Zark used me and TM to gain that. He knew that we didn't get along and we both knew at one point me and him were really going to go at it. So he just waited until I called him out on what he was doing that was HURTING TVM, and then left complaining how much of an "idiot" I was. He took his people with him, and waited for the rest to follow, once done take what I (and the rest of the original leadership of TM) had helped build in the pact with Ely, and said "let's join up". Knowing full well Ely would jump on it and they did.

You people seem to think I'm stupid but I knew that was coming. I knew Zark was playing for that the second he started moving the forums around and the formats he gave and what all he deleted and ESPECIALLY when we started booting people for "sitting" (that were TM people) while around a 1/3 of the people he brought from Vs were doing the same thing.

And again, Zark, CL and a few others said that I should take time away from the game. So I did, I stepped back, let leadership take over, and I primarily built defense for our front line people and built cities to hand off to others that were moving south. But again, that was a terrible decision too.

But, again, I will say Zark DID do a lot of good for TVM. He is a very good leader. Is he the greatest? In my book, far from it. I've seen a LOT better. But he did do well for what he stepped up to do. The main conflicts happened when he decided to act on his own with things without talking to me OR anyone in leadership. There weren't many, but the things that he did that with, were major "Oh heck No"s.

Dark, it's done. Let it be done. I know I'm not the best leader at all. But I know that without my leadership and that of the original TM council, you and plenty of others wouldn't be anywhere near close to where you are at today. Remember that.
 
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Narissa Murphy

Guest
Zarkoff is a phenomenal strategist, I will give him that, all his strategies make perfect sense and are completely realistic. I simply wish he was as eloquent when speaking to the alliance as he is to outsiders. Sometimes I think he forgets that there are real people with real feelings on the other end of the keyboard. And the following is only my opinion as I don't feel it's appropriate to share explicit details, but I think... No, I feel he was far more lenient with his original group and considerate of their feelings than the group he merged into. This is an opinion and my perception.*


Please keep in mind that I was not aware of anything that went on in any place other than our public forum and this is what I am basing my opinion on. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. Just stating my point of view from where I sat.


Ultimately, I don't believe any one person was to blame. It really was a group effort that caused this explosion. Every single member is responsible for what happened, myself included.


I do believe that MOST everyone was doing what they believed to be right but even things started with the best intentions sometimes go horribly wrong.


I don't see any point on dwelling on it. It's done, time to move on. Don't think it's necessary to air anymore dirty laundry in this forum.*
 

TeapotDome

Guest
Zarkoff offered the majority of the actives in AGOBAMFP invitations into TVM. AGOBAMFP never got a chance to respond before TVM split... But the general consensus was refusing the offer on grounds that Paul S. is easier and funner to fight than to work with.
 

Lairo

Guest
First off,

Yes Paul did apologize to us, on more than one occasion, I just didn't think it needed mentioning because they weren't real apologies. It was always I'm sorry for what I said because of what TSF said, or I'm sorry for blowing up on you guys because TSF came back. It was basically just more of the blame game, which is ok when your 10 yrs old. Not to mention the apologies only came when he was backed into a corner and had No Way Out. So ya know what, I'm really glad we have this all settled, about you leaving that is. It would seem you packed all your bags, so we're gonna carry them to the train station for you. We even got you a First Class Ticket to anywhere because you ain't gotta go home but ya can't stay here!

p.s. Have a nice 4th of July Paul, and do try not to blow yourself up with Fireworks, because we all know you have a short Fuse!
 
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