Telling Conquests apart from Raids

[DeletedUser]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but defensive combat in this game seems to revolve more or less around telling raids apart from conquests. During raids, it's almost always to your advantage to "dodge" the attack, while during conquests, it's necessary to instead keep your units stationed in the city.

I got that much down, right?

In any case, this would mean that the most important aspect for defending your city is to be able to tell a raid apart from a conquest. This is apparently done by clicking the "attack" button on the attacking city, sending an imaginary colony ship toward them on the attacking menu, and then comparing the time it takes for that ship to arrive to the time listed on the attack report. If the time on your colony ship test matches the time on the incoming attack, then it's most likely a colonization attempt and it's to your benefit to dodge any accompanying raids that come with the attack attempt, and make sure your units are only exposed to the colonization group. Obviously, telling a raid and a conquest apart is vital to your survival, because if you mistake a raid for a conquest, you'll end up losing a bunch of units unnecessarily, while if you mistake a conquest for a raid, you could potentially lose your city due to a miscalculation.

Am I wrong in my impression of this game's battle system?

I was wondering... Do you receive on your report the time that the attack was sent, or do you only see the amount of time left? Say for instance, that you wake up one morning to an attack that was launched a good number of hours before you woke up. Do you get to see the time that the opponent launched said attack? And if you only see the current amount of time left until the attack reaches you, then how do you interpret whether or not it is a raid or a conquest attempt?

 

[DeletedUser]

During raids, it's almost always to your advantage to "dodge" the attack, while during conquests, it's necessary to instead keep your units stationed in the city.

Right, but to defend against an incoming CS, the best option when you didnt have defensive troops enough to resist the previous raids is to dodge the previous raids and reserve your defensive troops to fight against de CS.

When you are under attack, send out your offensive troops (slingers, horses, light ships...)
The best way to fight against a CS is to call back your offensive troops just after the CS arrival (just 1 second after if possible) to defeat the troops occuping your city.
Is because i consider the LS my best defensive units

In any case, this would mean that the most important aspect for defending your city is to be able to tell a raid apart from a conquest. This is apparently done by clicking the "attack" button on the attacking city, sending an imaginary colony ship toward them on the attacking menu, and then comparing the time it takes for that ship to arrive to the time listed on the attack report. If the time on your colony ship test matches the time on the incoming attack, then it's most likely a colonization attempt and it's to your benefit to dodge any accompanying raids that come with the attack attempt, and make sure your units are only exposed to the colonization group. Obviously, telling a raid and a conquest apart is vital to your survival, because if you mistake a raid for a conquest, you'll end up losing a bunch of units unnecessarily, while if you mistake a conquest for a raid, you could potentially lose your city due to a miscalculation.

Right again!

I was wondering... Do you receive on your report the time that the attack was sent, or do you only see the amount of time left?

You receive just the time left for the arrival...

Say for instance, that you wake up one morning to an attack that was launched a good number of hours before you woke up. Do you get to see the time that the opponent launched said attack? And if you only see the current amount of time left until the attack reaches you, then how do you interpret whether or not it is a raid or a conquest attempt?

You have other indicators like the size of the city sending the attack. A city under 5k rarely has conquer ability.
Most useful is to watch the sequence of attacks and supports incoming. A conquest attack always has the following structure (in a conquer world, not in a revolt one):

Time	Type	City
LTCS - 00:00:xx	Attack	A
LTCS - 00:00:xx	Attack	B
LTCS	Attack	CS city
LTCS + 00:00:xx	Support	C
LTCS + 00:00:xx	Support	D
LTCS + 00:00:xx	Support	E

Where LTCS = Landing time of the CS

 

[DeletedUser]

First off, on the report, you receive the time the attack/support arrived.

Assuming a conquest/siege system, Oriol pretty much has it right. You can defend using defensive troops, or you can attack the siege using your offensive troops. If you snipe, as Oriol suggested, there's less troops needed as well.

Also, you can use Athena's Wisdom ability to check the attack, but if your enemy has any idea what he's doing, the CS will have already been casted on it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Also, you can use Athena's Wisdom ability to check the attack, but if your enemy has any idea what he's doing, the CS will have already been casted on it.

Yeah, I forget it!
But I didnt recommend the wisdom spell in a speed x1 world if you have alternative options.
In DELTA, a temple lvl 12 give 6.2 favor x hour...
Is better to save the Athena spells to protect your own CS and build some pegasus if you have high walls.

 

[DeletedUser]

I see. So I get the impression that having an offensive city seems more effective in a sense, since you have a much better chance to offset any errors in calculation and take back a conquested city. However, it requires a lot of maintenance and attention, so having a defensive city seems like it may be a better idea for a less experienced player.

As far as sending attacks out and dodging, let's say you've pinpointed an a colony ship attack among a bunch of raids, and know the exact time on the server that would maximize your chances of dodging and then arriving back a bit more than 30 seconds before the colony ship arrives. When you send the ship out, am I correct in assuming that the total time of the voyage is twice the amount of time it shows on the attack screen? Meaning that if the time is shows on the outgoing dodging voyage is 1 hour, it'll actually take about 2 hours for the ship to return to my city? Also, do I have to take into account the +/-30 second mechanic on the outgoing attack as well as the return? After all, if the outgoing attack also has a +/- 30 second variation, the potential time difference could be as much as +/-60 seconds? Lastly, is the time on the incoming attack exact or an estimation?

About telling conquests from raids--your example showed that the opponent was sending supports after the colony ship arrived, which would imply that the attack right before the supports was the one with the colony ship. Also, I'm assuming that you can tell the difference between a support and an attack on your reports, and that the opponent can't change an attack into a support mid-voyage.

Wouldn't it be common practice though, to send one or maybe a couple negligible (1 swordsman and a transport for instance) attacks between the conquest and the supports to trick the opponent into mistaking the colony ship attack for a raid? After all, there's no difference between attacks in the reports other than the time it takes for them to arrive, right? I suppose one helpful tool would be to know which attack was launched first (even if you don't know the exact time), but I'm not sure if that's the case.

Also, I'm unsure about what you mean by this. Is there some mechanic that I've still overlooked?

Also, you can use Athena's Wisdom ability to check the attack, but if your enemy has any idea what he's doing, the CS will have already been casted on it.

The reason I'm asking all of this, is because I'm trying to help teach my fellow alliance members about how to defend themselves from the many aggressors in our ocean, so I want to actually know what I'm talking about before we start practicing this stuff. Sorry if it seems a little tedious.

 

[DeletedUser]

I see. So I get the impression that having an offensive city seems more effective in a sense, since you have a much better chance to offset any errors in calculation and take back a conquested city. However, it requires a lot of maintenance and attention, so having a defensive city seems like it may be a better idea for a less experienced player.

Do note, we're mostly talking about Conquest worlds. Which world do you play on?

As far as sending attacks out and dodging, let's say you've pinpointed an a colony ship attack among a bunch of raids, and know the exact time on the server that would maximize your chances of dodging and then arriving back a bit more than 30 seconds before the colony ship arrives. When you send the ship out, am I correct in assuming that the total time of the voyage is twice the amount of time it shows on the attack screen? Meaning that if the time is shows on the outgoing dodging voyage is 1 hour, it'll actually take about 2 hours for the ship to return to my city? Also, do I have to take into account the +/-30 second mechanic on the outgoing attack as well as the return? After all, if the outgoing attack also has a +/- 30 second variation, the potential time difference could be as much as +/-60 seconds? Lastly, is the time on the incoming attack exact or an estimation?

The time the attack lands is 100% accurate. It won't arrive 10 seconds early, or 10 seconds late.
My personal preference when dodging to snipe is to use the cancel button. Essentially, I keep track of how long the attack I send to dodge been out, (I usually try to send that attack when there's about a minute left for the CS) and cancel after 30 seconds. That way, I won't have to worry about the anti-timer, because it won't matter at all.

About telling conquests from raids--your example showed that the opponent was sending supports after the colony ship arrived, which would imply that the attack right before the supports was the one with the colony ship. Also, I'm assuming that you can tell the difference between a support and an attack on your reports, and that the opponent can't change an attack into a support mid-voyage.

Wouldn't it be common practice though, to send one or maybe a couple negligible (1 swordsman and a transport for instance) attacks between the conquest and the supports to trick the opponent into mistaking the colony ship attack for a raid? After all, there's no difference between attacks in the reports other than the time it takes for them to arrive, right? I suppose one helpful tool would be to know which attack was launched first (even if you don't know the exact time), but I'm not sure if that's the case.

You can tell the difference between supports and attacks, and I didn't mention this because I didn't like to give away my tricks, even though this one is fairly obvious for anyone who can think.
Honestly, your best bet is to be online when the CS is sent, and be able to realize it's taking how long a CS would take.

Also, I'm unsure about what you mean by this. Is there some mechanic that I've still overlooked?

I seem to have missed a few words, but essentially you can cast spells, or divine powers, (I forget which they're called ingame heh, I've been using the terminology "spells" forever now) on attacks. They can make the attack stronger or weaker, kill a few units before it even reaches you, revive units after the attack, hide the attack from view for a bit, or let you see what's in the attack. The latter is Athena's Wisdom. Unfortunately, some spells also prevent others from being cast on the attack, which is why it won't always work.

The reason I'm asking all of this, is because I'm trying to help teach my fellow alliance members about how to defend themselves from the many aggressors in our ocean, so I want to actually know what I'm talking about before we start practicing this stuff. Sorry if it seems a little tedious.

Don't worry about it.
If anything, it's a little head-spinning at times heh.

 

[DeletedUser]

My personal preference when dodging to snipe is to use the cancel button.

Me too
Obviously, you must be present to do that.

Ayebaw plays in OMEGA, like me.
Is a conquer world speed x1.
He is too far away from my cities. Otherwise, i will launch him few attacks... just for training purposes 8)

And please, don't forget the militia, its essential.

 

[DeletedUser]

If Omega is another name for Delta, then yeah, I play on that world (x1 conquest). I'm on the rim where everyone is still growing and the conflict hasn't really started yet, hence why I'm preparing my allies. I have some other world accounts, but I'm really only active on Delta (and Hyperborea for fun). Oddly, the people I've met in Hyberborea (a non-conquer world) all seem to be a bunch of thugs, whereas the majority of players I've met on the rim of Delta seem more bent on peace most of the time. Go figure.

Anyway, this is about Delta. And yeah, dodging by leaving the city only for a minute or so does seem fairly efficient. I'll have to practice that with my island-mates to get the hang of it. About the militia--when the militia is damaged, I assume that you get a single batch of militia every time you activate it, right? So if you send out the militia and it absorbs a raid, then you won't get to refill its losses for another 3 hours, right? By that logic, I'd assume it's often more efficient to activate militia so it primarily absorbs the colony ship attack.

I mean, I think I have a lot of the basics down--colonize on a different but close island with farming villages and other alliance members because support is easiest to send via land. Dodge raids (arrive before conquest) with defensive cities, snipe (arrive after conquest) with offensive cities. Offense is more effective if you're really active, but is much higher maintenance. Remember that militia can't be canceled when it's activated, so time it carefully. Tripwire eachother's cities so you can quickly send support and prevent colonization of your neighbors.

I think I understand the gist of it, but what I lack is experience, so whether or not we can survive is sort of a toss-up. Hopefully, I should be able to hold my own if I get used to the system with my alliance-mates.

 

[DeletedUser]

If Omega is another name for Delta, then yeah, I play on that world (x1 conquest)

So sorry! I'm talking about DELTA, of course. I said OMEGA cause i also play in OMEGA (es24) another speed x1 world but with revolt (i like both conquer and revolt, but anyways in a slow world)
In fact, i've signed up in every possible world both in the US server and in the spanish server a couple days ago... but i just play in US4 and ES24.

Oddly, the people I've met in Hyberborea (a non-conquer world) all seem to be a bunch of thugs, whereas the majority of players I've met on the rim of Delta seem more bent on peace most of the time. Go figure.

easy to be a thug when you know that nobody will take away your cities...

About the militia--when the militia is damaged, I assume that you get a single batch of militia every time you activate it, right? So if you send out the militia and it absorbs a raid, then you won't get to refill its losses for another 3 hours, right?

Youre right in both questions.

By that logic, I'd assume it's often more efficient to activate militia so it primarily absorbs the colony ship attack.

When you can, activate the militia in the way that you can refresh them just 1 second before the CS attack.

Offense is more effective if you're really active, but is much higher maintenance.

Agreed.

I think I understand the gist of it, but what I lack is experience, so whether or not we can survive is sort of a toss-up. Hopefully, I should be able to hold my own if I get used to the system with my alliance-mates.

You tought the most important think about this game: THIS IS A WAR GAME, IS NOT SIMCITY.
Attack, always attack, don't stop attacking your neighbors... if you want to progress you really needs to attack people and defend your own cities or your friends cities. Don't make too many allied and friends... otherwise may not be found new targets to grow yourself.

Have a good Christmas holyday!

 

[DeletedUser1680]

Under the darkness of a C-ship attack

Does a city being colonized see what is going on in their city. Can they tell the size of the atacking force left in their harbor or city. Can they send out messages to request support.

 

[DeletedUser]

yes, yes, and yes.

 

[DeletedUser]

That's why you get 24 hours (or more if you have Democracy tech) to attempt to disrupt the conquest else it would be too easy to lose cities. Well, it might already be too easy......

Also, note this from the Wiki:

detecting the conquer attack

You will know that a conquer attack is coming by one of a few methods:
-You note that the attack is taking far longer then most
-when you click on the attack, there is a picture of a C-Ship, not a regular boat
-there are multiple waves of support surrounding one attack.

Is the 2nd point valid? Have not seen that feature.

 

[DeletedUser]

Depends if you're playing a conquest or revolt world.

In a conquest world a little sign will tell you that you're under siege and you'll notice a colony ship in your harbour.

In a revolt world, you'll notice that a slow attack arrives right after a countdown goes past 12 hours. Or before the final 'red stage'.

I will get you some screenshots soon.

 

[DeletedUser]

detecting the conquer attack
(...)
-when you click on the attack, there is a picture of a C-Ship, not a regular boat
(...)

Is the 2nd point valid? Have not seen that feature.

Not true.
You can see a diferent picture with your own attacks, but not with the incoming attacks from other players.
Both in a conquer and in a revolt world.