Stuff I Apparently Said to Paul...

So I have been chatting around lately, and I started getting a few messages from friends on all sides about growing conflict and tension between Molten Scourge, Elysium, and The Victorious Misfits. Despite obviously being on the side of Elysium, I was going to bite my tongue for friendship sake. But due to the fact that apparently some people (TVM) have been putting a lot of words in my mouth in my absence. I feel the need to come out and speak my mind about a lot of things.

1) According to TVM leadership, I practically begged for help vs Southern Alliance and it was a war that they were fighting on our behalf, apparently. While I did game plan for SA, I blatantly said they weren't our top priority past O44. Anyone important knows that. As for me begging, yeah its true I did beg TVM. I begged them to stop attacking because Norbik and Sunmaven just showed me unescorted transport attack after unescorted transport attack. This put a few of SA into the top 12 defenders for no gain. The rest were taken by us prior to Sunmaven's VM. They however did a hell of a job beating her when she was inactive. Also, its nice to see Sunmaven back and still rocking awesome stats. She was a fun defender and I have no doubt that if she wasn't isolated, we would have had more trouble.

2) TVM has a very funny way of viewing things. Apparently Elysium isn't a good alliance anymore because i'm not there and LG is out with a heart condition. This apparently translates to raise issues and threaten their allies over odd issues that are way in the past. Such as MS's NAP with Elysium. According to Paul, "Elysium is a weak alliance who can't conquer their area and needs NAP's now. Such a thing wouldn't have happened under The Smilodon Fatalis" - Paraphrased & taken from shared forum posts and send to me in a PM. Okay Kids, this one if for a cookie. Who was the first to suggest the NAP to Elysium? Also who told Paul that this had happened?

TM accepted these terms back then and now take issue that i'm not there and act like its something totally new to them. Why? Because Elysium won't "honor" the pact and fight MS. God forbid my alliance follow my rules to pacting and NAP's and show a little honor and class towards its allies. Does TM needs its hand held for an alliance that offended it alone? What happened to suddenly being better than Elysium or that Elysium is no longer good? Wouldn't this just be suicide if true? I mean when you look at this seems like total BS. If Elysium is sooo bad now, then you don't bloody need their help and the only reason you would demand is so you could knife them in the back when they are down. Other than that, its probably due to the fact that TVM isn't as good as they are claiming. Up until now the best team they faced is SA, a team they couldn't decisively defeat. In fact, if you look at the last Grepostats conquest page, Grep Reapers had more conquests on SA than TVM. A whooping 2-0 lead to be exact. Yet apparently, Elysium isn't good because it can't finish Illuminati. A rim team that Elysium isn't fully positioned to fight in terms of logistics. Mean while, Elysium just pretty much crushed Romanus this week. A set of players that I can vouch are good.

Another thing I don't get, why is Paul so upset at MS for taking SA? If you could finish off your biggest threat faster and in a respectable manner, then this wouldn't be an issue now would it?

I'm sorry Paul, I like you, but where do you get off telling everyone false stuff about me or making some boogus claims about how you're the best alliance in Gythium now? Because you're gaining more points by having 40+ more players than Elysium? In the past month both Elysium and Molten Scourge have blown TVM out of the water in conquest gains.

Elysium- 222 gains
Molten Scourge- 207 gains
The Victorious Misfits- 182 gains

There is no data to indicate that TVM is better in combat. They just happen to be catching up due to merges. I also don't condone what I have seen out of TVM leadership and them trying to suddenly push their allies around.

Best Wishes,
Daniel
 

amirashah

Guest
You know what is funny? o65 was never part of Ely's area. It has been MS (FN) from the start. They have a few cities in our ocean because we have an NAP with them and the players in our ocean are personal friends of mine (through guess who? TSF). Dan and I both knew early on the NAP would benefit us both. He had a good established team and he knew I could make something good of my alliance.

The best part about this SA/MS merge is the amount of interest we have brought back to the world of Gythium. When was the last time we had players arguing on the externals and at each other's necks in game? not in a very long time I can tell you that.
 
Another thing I find odd to Pauls agreements and said violations.

1) Territorial agreements proposed to Elysium and agreed on by both parties are heavily violated by TVM. Agreements were made that TVM gets the east and south (if they could take it) and Elysium gets the north and west (if they could take it). These territories are to be used as pleased by said alliances. By taking in VS, TVM has already broken their agreements for territory. IE, a compensation is required. In other news the south belongs to Elysium interests by right, since Elysium has an NAP with MS which was endorsed by me, Fish, Liquid, and many others in the council. Then the oceans rightfully belong to MS/Elysium interests. This is, of course, in accordance to Paul's own land requirements and wishes and any attempt to back out of that is a direct forfeit of the pact. Fair is fair last I checked and if we did that in the south, we all know that Paul would demand the north.

Amir, have you mentioned to Paul yet that you actually took out one of my old teams? ;)
 

amirashah

Guest
No, I forgot to mention that. I actually forgot to mention a lot of things to Paul. Most of what he knows about me is just from my stats on gythuim. I haven't talked about my past with many people outside of the fact that I had a few really good worlds and have been playing forever. :D

Taking out doesn't give what we did to your team justice, it was a complete destruction. I think we took 200 cities from that alliance in the course of 2 weeks and the final score was like 350-3 or something stupid like that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Paul S.

Guest
Meanwhile not a single word of this is true nor have I spoken. Nice try though. Come back when what you guys say, are what was actually said by me. Not what you're twisting it to be to be in your favor.
 

amirashah

Guest
So you are admitting that TVM sent many un-escorted attacks against SA. Well done gentlemen, well done...
 
You know, I wasn't going to do this. But since Paul seems intent to put words in my mouth and threaten his allies and then deny it...


Whats this about giving your ally a reality check and instigating war because you won't get your way?


1) I don't believe I ever gave a time frame on our NAP.

2) Paul, you are pretty hypocritical to bring up pact issues. Tbh, you argued with me weekly on previously agreed things because you couldn't capitalize or get an advantage in your own terms. (It felt like). A lot of the terms we agreed to were written by you. Including that other pacts and NAPs could exist and that if we fought one of them, you wouldn't help. Apparently this is a two way street.

3) This proves that you have pretty much no honor or respect towards your supposed ally. Yet you're going to get fussy about violations?

Good luck Paul, and maybe MS have mercy on your souls. If I were you...i'd start doing some real fast talking to any and all pacts that you have. I'll be speaking to them soon.
 

amirashah

Guest
Hmmmmm well now this has gotten interesting hasn't it? MS/TVM war is lame so far. I thought that TVM was going to bring the heat. So far THC has done a better job.
 

northman81

Guest
IMHO, despite these silly children, eg, tsf claiming they make the "laws..." ROTFLMAO OMG LMAO at said stupid little child... this thread should not exist.

Very bad form, young UCLA kid, posting PM here. I will say here publicly, that I do not like you at all, and I have no respect for you, period. Perhaps you will grow up some day. I do not blame you, however, as you are so young, and silly, and stuck in college with all it's stupidity. Perhaps one day, you will grow into an actual human man, but until then, I think you should shut up.

And if you, or anyone, wants to talk crap about Paul S, well guess who you will now be facing???

Please, young idiot child, give me some evidence how I am wrong? I am real big on evidence, discussion, and proof. Or, if you dislike this, come and find me IRL and play me at any game, for whatever amount of money, which requires thought?

How about a heads up poker match for 10K? just a friendly wager. otherwise, go find a pacifier (ask your mommy, little itty bitty boy-child), and be quiet. I am tired of reading the garbage you write.

The only thing which pacifies me, after reading said garbage, is looking you up on grepostats. now there is a real LOL a real gutwrencher. Again, I am calling you out publicly and openly, unless this violates some silly forum rules. go ahead and ban me if you want, but I believe I have not broken any rules here.

Again, tsf, what do you have to say for yourself?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I find it funny how you're calling me childish for multiple reasons. Mostly because you're slinging all these rude insults at me for almost no reason. For what? a joke in another thread? Or because I insulted your ally? Is this what you define as your friend?

Meanwhile this popped up today to an Elysium player.

"attackme today at 07:00

im coming after you guys. you messed with us 1 too many times. im rogue and im coming for your cities. you baddies better be ready. i hope you bring TSF back to slap you all in the face for being such sissies. let him know im gonna rim his ass, and im after YOU GUYS. now you got a real war. Be ready for for the Wolf, im coming for you traitors and im bringing my friends. bet you weren't ready for a 055 invasion were ya? im on you like flies on ____ you traitorous bastards."


Is this maturity to you, Northman?

Also, why are you laughing at my stats? You are aware that I left Gyth about 2 months ago right and when I played I took towns off all our enemy alliances and ranked in the top 5 in ABP right? In this time, you have only mustered 10 more towns and 11k more ABP than I had. Not very impressive, friend. Your ABP also ranks far below your actual point rank. Though to be fair, you do have a good DBP rank. :)

The only world I have seriously played since then is En Nysa, where I broke into the top 100 ABP from the rim and held off the #5 alliance and their academy.

At no point in this thread have I really lied or given any evidence that I am lying. I think the above post quoted by one of TVM's leader's is a pretty good is a pretty good indication of the rising level of desperation and frustration by TVM. You just don't start getting an emotion reaction like that unless you have something to hide.

I'm sorry if I did something to make you dislike me. I can assure you that the feeling isn't mutual. If anything, I am trying to help you. Now, I don't know your relationship with Paul. I assume that you guys are pacted. So I would implore you to look at the above posts. Paul, clearly was/is a friend of mine. He told me this and I was going to just let it play out until I saw what was going on.

Lets make some notes here, notice how TVM is suddenly hostile while the alliance Elysium has its leader away due to medical problems? A leader, who just so happens to be the #1 attacker and #2 in points btw. Do you think that Paul would be trying to twist Elysium's arm if he didn't think that he could manipulate him? Is this someone you consider a good friend?

Now, you might not like me. That is your choice and is a okay. But you should look at your choice of friends here.

Oh, as friendly advice, you did break a forum rule by insulting me. :)
 

northman81

Guest
haha, now I think I am starting to like you again <3 At least I got your attention. And, like I said, I do have great respect for a young college kid at UCLA. Like I have also said, I was very much like you, in my younger and more formative years.

Regarding my insults to you, I totally agree, and I have apparently broken a forum rule with every single post here lol perhaps why I dont usually post on these forums.

I am aware that you were/are an excellent player, and left gythium several months ago, and are now thinking of coming back. Perhaps you are right, that your posts here were accurate/rightful, but... and this is only my personal viking view viz a viz agreements made with myself, viz god given right etc and etc and etc... I frown upon posting PM anywhere without the consent of the other party.

IMHO, this is akin, IRL, to recording someone without their knowledge, and then bending the facts to suit ones own personal agenda. Not saying that is what you are doing, but it happens so much IRL, that i personally find any hint of these sorts of tactics distasteful.

Anyways, glad you wrote such a nice, and well formed response. Like I have said, I am always open to discussion... at least until I am banned from these forums lol I am guessing I will be banned shortly after this message. honestly, however, I do not care.

Also regarding my stats, you are correct. they stink. but that is mostly because no one will fight me anymore, and I am working 16-21 hr days on my RL businesses, and I got so my mail and etc and etc to deal with running my alliance, I can hardly plan my own ops anymore. I am throwing silly city festivals, cuz I cant get to the fight in time ;( soon, this will change, provided I have the time. Plus... no one knows how many city slots I got saved ;)

another edit: jeez this is getting long... you may have some valid points against Paul, but as I operate only on evidence and proof, and as Paul is the only alliance leader (including my own co-founders, two of which betrayed me recently and tried to destroy my alliance) who has been straight-forward and honest with me since day one, I will simply have to stick with him and VM as our closest allies (honestly, the only alliance my team has been able to trust) until they prove otherwise.

valhalla tsf! for death and glory...

and I want to see you go and kill it at UCLA. I want to see straight As. I will mail you candy for each A you get ;D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Paul S.

Guest
I still consider you a friend Smilo, but WOW are you twisting my words and putting thoughts and emotions behind them that were never there in the first place. I'll leave it at that.

And Jason, I could say the same with you guys? ONE Cs attempt on us by a former SA player... And it was ALL SA people who were in on it. No one from MS..

And no, I'm not "admitting" unescorted hits. Because that never happened in any of the history of my team UNLESS it was for troop killing to get Free pop; Of which I sent an "unescorted" hit with all D at one point to Fredsgate because I needed some Pop. Outside of that, there has been no proof and only just propaganda that started from Sunmaven and got picked up by you and Smilo.
 
I frown upon people taking my name in vain to further their agenda. I agree, the act can be distasteful and as I said, I was going to drop it. What Paul does, is Paul's business. But when someone tries to use me against my own friends, knowing that the only other person who would know is currently incapacitated and hospitalized, then I tend to think that the trust is broken and the line of class has been far crossed.

Northman, I respect you and your views. I am certainly not here to be mean or twist facts. I know you don't like the photo posting, but if you look at the photos, they are perfectly in context. I only bother to go post photos when someone drags my name through the mud then pegs me the liar when I take issue. That or during pact break issues. In which case, Paul is guilty of both.

I know RL issues are woeful, I got killed on En Cythera because of it. As for proving it, the proof is in the pudding and I was holding back a bit. As for your co-founders leaving, it might not be personal. If you are unable to run an alliance due to RL, people tend to leave. Again, this was my experience on Cythera.

I don't go to UCLA, but I am in college. I thank you for your kind works. Also, snickers please. :) hahaha

Paul, I consider you a friend too. So i'll give you friendly advice. Stop. Denying. Stuff. That. You. Are. Obviously. Guilty. Of. Its literally posted in your own words in a photo posted publicly. Attackme's reaction only serves to further my point. There is no twist to it and I am willing to forward the message to anyone that asks. So at this point, I would say that you should own up to your own actions and maybe people will forgive. Everyone gets emotional, and everyone makes a mistake. At this point, even your own team wouldn't believe this story if you sold it to them and several are getting angry at either the situation or leadership for obviously lying.

Paul, I can confirm that TM sent a lot of unescorted/ poorly escorted attacks. I'm sure if we asked sunmaven and samhill, they would say the same. This stuff was literally in our shared ops forum tab. I'm not saying that they do it still, but they definitely did.
 
Last edited:

amirashah

Guest
jeez this is getting long... you may have some valid points against Paul, but as I operate only on evidence and proof, and as Paul is the only alliance leader (including my own co-founders, two of which betrayed me recently and tried to destroy my alliance) who has been straight-forward and honest with me since day one, I will simply have to stick with him and VM as our closest allies (honestly, the only alliance my team has been able to trust) until they prove otherwise.
We talked for the first time today and I was 100% straight forward with you about my intentions. Maybe that means that there is one alliance you can trust to at least be true to themselves. We have our goals as do you and one of the lines up.

And Jason, I could say the same with you guys? ONE Cs attempt on us by a former SA player... And it was ALL SA people who were in on it. No one from MS..
I told you what we where going to do. Straight up told you and yet you are surprised we have only sent 1 CS against you. We wouldn't lie about solid strategic plans. As for it being all former SA members, the older MS players are located out of range of you for the time being although a handful of us are working our way tward you. I am sure you will have fun with that soon.

I wish you could control your players though, it may make coordinating your efforts easier. Nobody likes losing one of their heavy hitters just because he is a hot head.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Paul S.

Guest
Smilo, those words are "in context" with what you shared. Since it's not in context at all to the WHOLE conversation, that's where you're twisting my words. In which, "friends" don't throw their friends under the bus. Which is what you're trying to do. Because I'm calling you out and you don't like it and I have valid points against you. So in order to make yourself look better, you pit my own words against me and only use bits and pieces of a whole thing.

Kinda like the Bible. You can pick bits and pieces out and say "contradiction", "doesn't make sense/add up", "total lies". But when you look at the WHOLE thing, none of that is there nor even remotely true.

Secondly, alright so then let's see these "Reports"? Last time you tried that and I asked for them you couldn't come up with them. Still can't now.

Jason: What you told me you were going to take in an enemy because you're running low on active people? Because your alliance was crippling itself and your wars with GR and Hydra were at a VERY close point to having you guys get crushed? You had SA merge into you, because MS got weak, you needed people (and strong ones) so that MS could survive, and SA was your only option. Which is fine. Just gives me 6 more oceans to claim.
 
Do you want me to forward the conversation to anyone asking? I'm pretty sure I got the major details. Pact violations, set Elysium straight, turn the world on your ally, etc. What more really needs to be shown exactly? Paul, friends don't conspire against friends in the first place so you sound like a bloody hypocrite now. I am sorry that you're starting to feel the back lash, but its a pretty proven fact what you're doing at this point. Why would I need to make myself look better at this stage? Until I get an account, I don't exactly play here anymore. I mean who could I possibly be trying to impress? Are you really getting so desperate as to blame others for your own actions? Would it really be so hard to just genuinely apologize? Seriously, none of your claims add up. Who am I trying to convince again? Elysium knows that what you said in my name isn't true, they know I wouldn't lie to them and they've read your bloody messages fully. I mean, are you insinuating that i'm lying to Amirashah? Why would I need to do that? Again, would believe me regardless and he's already fighting you. Come to think of it, what personal vendetta would I have against you to begin with unless provoked? Past records indicate that I end to not do this sort of thing unless someone prompts me. Seriously, the last message to you prior to "you need to give Elysium a reality check before I do" was talking about you're about to fight Amirashah and prior to that it was just friendly chatting. What are we missing here? Is there some hidden message in a conversation that I need to show the world before the topic was even brought up?

Actually, the bible is heavily edited thanks to Constantine. That's not to say Christianity is wrong and I don't think it is, that's just to say its now unclear about which rules to follow as its hard to distinguish actual rules from made up ones. In short, thanks Rome.

You never asked, they were blatantly in the ops tab. I probably wouldn't be able to due to the fact that A) All my past data is erased. B) Norbiik and Sunmaven had them. If they wish to come forward, then so be it. If not, I think enough people have fought TVM to know that it happened. Why would I lie to you about that at the time though? You were our ally right? Kinda don't like my allies sucking.

What world do you live in? In what way is MS being crushed by GR? Since the war officially started they've taken a whooping four cities. Prior to that MS was The Fire Nation. The score is 29-4 in MS's favor and its only slowed down because GR has almost all run to vm. As for Hydra, WHO? 1) They aren't even relevant. 2) The score is 28-0. Combined these teams are 4-57 vs MS. I thought we were talking wars, not Eastern Michigan's football record over the past few years.

Paul, if I may, maybe these types of absurd claims are what causes people to believe me over you. Anyone who really thinks that I took things out of context could read the messages for themselves, I would be happy to forward the exact set if they so much as ask. I'm truthfully disappointed at how much you are willing to lie instead of just apologize. I try to see things from your point of view about why you might do this but i'm starting to lose the benefit of the doubt in you. I become more and more disappointed, maybe you are acting out due to RL issues. If you are, my door is open. But I don't see why you would dispute this at this point. Anyone involved has already fully reviewed the conversations between us, anyone curious who it may effect need only ask, anyone else will probably give me the benefit of the doubt.

I apologize if you don't like me, or don't think that i'm your friend. But friends don't let friends turn on other friends. Liquid Gold, Silron, Forward Bob, etc. They are all very good friends, and I would never let them get back stabbed by one of your plans. Just as I wouldn't let them back stab you if the shoe was on the other foot. I think that my actions have proven that I am a fair person and leader, if not a little hard on my team at times to get stuff done right the first time. I seriously think that you should come clean and apologize, to continue on this tantrum of yours will only cost you any chance of maintain your current pacts. I don't think that there is a doubt in any person's mind that you have been plotting at this point.

PS, if I was campaigning against you and your alliance to throw you under the bus, I could very easily do it without a forum argument. You kinda left a mountain of evidence. You should seriously stop arguing with me and stop your top players from deserting you.
 

amirashah

Guest
Jason: What you told me you were going to take in an enemy because you're running low on active people? Because your alliance was crippling itself and your wars with GR and Hydra were at a VERY close point to having you guys get crushed? You had SA merge into you, because MS got weak, you needed people (and strong ones) so that MS could survive, and SA was your only option. Which is fine. Just gives me 6 more oceans to claim.
You really can't read can you? I have said it before and I will say it again: I really thought more of you before this whole ordeal but you are now showing your true colors. What I said was that we have had a few of our big guns quit and we would need some more strong players to last the many months that are still left before WWs, but I guess that concept is too hard for you to grasp, or maybe you are just twisting my words, either way that looks bad on you.
 

northman81

Guest
hey fellas. wow... this thread is heating up, and i thought i was the mean guy. also, from what i am reading, it appears the "three man 'friends' team" official camping trip to canada is off the table ;(... and here i was, hoping hitch a ride. ah well. Paul, we can still go camping in the hills of west virginia (very nice this time of year, i hear), and drink some 1,000,000 proof moonshine, and party it up with the mutated mountain people. First, however, i must ask one question...

1. if you went camping with somebody and woke-up the next morning with sore privates, when you got home, would you tell anybody?

Smilo: sorry i got your school wrong. was it mich state? i seem to have read ucla and mich state on here. i can get these things mixed up. anyways, college is pretty much college. if i am wrong, feel free to tell me where u go. And, regarding snickers, I got u ;p I will go and buy one this afternoon, and keep my "fingers crossed." I want to see evidence, ie, transcripts, progress reports, letters of rec from your professors, samples of your work (who knows, i might need a guy like u on my real team), and etc.

edit: smilo, almost forgot, if you start receiving all these palates of snickers, make sure you remember to brush your teeth. it is easy for college students, who are bombarded with storms and hurricanes of silly busy work, to forget to take care of themselves. E.g. when i was your age, and came home for the summer, i went to the dentist, and had something like 19 cavities lol true story. it took something like 6 appointments over 6 weeks to get them all filled. if this works out how i am hoping it will, we just might be able to give you a new nickname...

"the snickerdon fatalis"

just don't eat yourself to death. too much sugar is not good. better to drink coffee and smoke cartons of cigarettes. my personal views, anyway, viz a viz, etc, etc, etc.

if you show me straight A's and well written projects/papers/etc, i will send u snickers by the crate ;-D i remember when i was in college, and i needed all kinds of candies and coffee and espresso and caffeine pills and other "party favors" and lots and lots and lots of cigarettes. If you are going to be a business man, i have found via my own personal experience, you must buy your cigarettes by the carton.

amarishah (i hope i spelled that right): yes, we did have a nice chat yesterday. And as our alliances have friendly relations (no one on my team is authorized to attack your team, period, unless first attacked by said team), i am open to discussing and exchanging official NAP terms.

I am sure you can appreciate, however, that i will not break my word with Paul S and VM, no matter what anyone says, until they first break it with me. that is how i operate. i worked too hard securing our strong NAP with TM/TVM (Paul can attest to this), and we spent well over a month discussing and exchanging terms. and my team, from old CM days to current CN days, has NEVER had an issue with Paul's team, period. so, who else should i trust?

furthermore, i always demand full disclosure to all parties, so no one can stab anyone in the back, or at least they have to work very hard to do so. i have been betrayed too many times, even by former RL business partners of mine, so now I have learned to protect myself and my friends and allies.

Since I don't really know the facts, and am not familiar with all the "goings-on" between Ely, MS, and TVM [this is on the other side of the world from my Nation of peaceful "farmers," (we have literally been at peace with almost everyone, except a few noob alliances we had to destroy for sending us hate mail, and the one bully alliance who started attacking us months ago, out of nowhere) I will most likely stay out of this discussion here.

that is, unless i feel that Paul is being mistreated. if anyone tries to bully my friends, teammates, and allies, guess what...

I BULLY YOU

HA

and I got laywers and lawyers and i am not even happy. I want all the lawyers in the world, so no one can even defend themselves from me. eventually, i plan to have not only a team of lawyers, but i want to have teams of laywers. my lawyers will have lawyers (my best guy already does have his own lawyer lol he needs one, too) and their lawyers will have lawyers, and so on. kinda like the natural numbers. you get as many of them as you want. also, i am quite sure there exists a bijection (for the uninitiated, that is a 1-1 and onto map "bleh"..gross language) between the natural numbers and my teams of lawyers.

anyway, this is getting too long, i will stop writing here. if anyone wishes to discuss anything with me, feel free to PM me at your convenience.

northman

valhalla! to all
 
Last edited by a moderator:

amirashah

Guest
I can respect where you stand north, I understand that you cannot turn on TVM without provocation and I would not ask you too, it is not my place to decide your alliance's friendships nor will it ever be.

As for Paul, he has either not understood a single thing I have told him about the merge or he is purposefully trying to make MS look week to turn people against us. I would like to call him a friend but he is making it very hard for me to be that let alone a working relationship. I may have over reacted to what he said, but I cannot and will not let someone try to drag me and my alliance's name through the mud especially all the hard work and dedication by my team, both old and new members. I could post stats of our wars with every alliance that is or has been in the top 15 but then I would just be doing extra work that doesn't need to be done. We have lost 8 cities to enemies seance becoming MS and my taking over a large part of leadership.

TVM have lost 36 cities seance FN became MS. Even if you don't count VS takes they have lost 19 cities.

Oh and I am sure my members are enjoying those un-escorted chariots and cats that found their way to the botton of the ocean before they even hit laded. Gweat job gwuys you are so scawy! :D
 
Last edited by a moderator: