I suppose it might help , in the end, for TMN to say "well we won the war, you all just survived the server." And that isn't really for me to gripe about . However, in my opinion we won the war. First we weathered the loss of a good group of players..then weathered the loss of both the inactives (And yes, I count those as losses, even if they are the easy conquests.) and not a small amount of other cities. (I lost two myself , the first was a fun night). Then we started taking things (again, inactives and some contested cities) as well. The plan that I was led to understand was followed much of the way, ending with the merges . And then, we got the four wonders and weathered that massive last ditch effort op. There was never a second, which is both a shame and what seems to me to be a tacit admission of defeat. However one might want to spin it, the outcome was never in doubt in those wonder cities getting assaulted. Lastly, it seems to me that the leader disbanding an alliance is telling. People do move on, new servers do open..but it seems like that's basically giving up when so much could still have been contested. There's still a lot of active players here. In short, I have a difficult time seeing where we lost any sort of war. If the other side wants to pack up their toys and go home it seems to mean that they're done.