Innogames ruining grepolis: gold abuse & events, etc.

[DeletedUser]

Some counter points had some validity, but let me clarify some things.

-This is more of a 'don't hate the player, hate the game' thread. With the big boosts out there, players from all sides with the means will take advantage of it. I am not 'whining' that one alliance has an advantage over another, that is illogical unless it happens to be like Yankees vs Marlins payroll
-The balance of the event is messed up. Mantis and the occasional erinyes make far more sense to buy than the harpies and there is no corresponding archers. This point is true and could easily be addressed better in future events
-The POWER of the event items is way too strong. Even if they balanced the items, getting 2160 pop mantis in 4h is absurd. With a large bankroll, you could get a big edge on people since the items are so powerful. If these were more reasonable, the edge wouldn't be as significant
-The LENGTH of the events is absurd. Between 2.5weeks and a month for these events to have to endure this as well as time after to deal with stored tokens is way too long. Suggestions in other threads include lowering the length or limiting the powerful items to less of the days could help
-The FREQUENCY of the events is absurd. Everytime one of these ends, it feels like it is only another month or two to wait for the next one and pray that it will not ruin the game. Slow your roll, inno. What you are doing to innogames with all the souped up features like instabuild and events like NBA Jam's attempt at representing basketball. These events with insane flyer tokens etc go one step further and are like NBA Jam's tournament edition, where you could make 9point shots and dunk from anywhere on the court. Sure it was funny, but it made a mockery of what it was representing. I'm worried that this is what grepolis is doing to itself.

 

[DeletedUser6919]

There has always been gold advantages, this is nothing new and they have always covered up for some players lack of skill and I agree it can be frustrating.

I can understand that yesterday we broke your siege and you didn't break ours that it look like it is 'cos we out spent you but it isn't what happened. It is 'cos we used different tactics to stack and break seiges.

Your players started pulling sup out of support when it looked like they'd be getting bad ratio's so we didn't even kill as much as you claim we did. If you watched the live feed, you would see we didn't lose most of our myths, so we are not having to do too much rebuilding as you are making out and with temple looting it doesn't take weeks to replace nests anymore.

I admit this event is helping with siege breaks, as currently many of us see no reason not to send myths as they are cheap to replace. However some of your players don't see it the same way and opted not to get manti's and send to Dem's as they didn't like the ratio's.

Which is why I'm saying gold wasn't the deciding factor, it is different peopls tactics that has made the difference. Many of ours opted to get mantis and send them to save cities, where as others see getting Manti's as pointless and prefer to get HS as they feel the BP will have a more lasting benefit.

However this is getting off topic a bit and getting to specific, so to get back this back on track, I agree:

* Events are too common place.

* Manti's are too strong.

* There are too many prem changes that are replacing skill with gold.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lol I didn't say anything about the specific sieges in that post; you are the one who keeps bringing it up. I'm making points in general about what Inno is doing to the game. We have similar concerns so stop fluffing your feathers and stay focused.

 

[DeletedUser13106]

There has always been gold advantages, this is nothing new and they have always covered up for some players lack of skill and I agree it can be frustrating.

I can understand that yesterday we broke your siege and you didn't break ours that it look like it is 'cos we out spent you but it isn't what happened. It is 'cos we used different tactics to stack and break seiges.

Your players started pulling sup out of support when it looked like they'd be getting bad ratio's so we didn't even kill as much as you claim we did. If you watched the live feed, you would see we didn't lose most of our myths, so we are not having to do too much rebuilding as you are making out and with temple looting it doesn't take weeks to replace nests anymore.

I admit this event is helping with siege breaks, as currently many of us see no reason not to send myths as they are cheap to replace. However some of your players don't see it the same way and opted not to get manti's and send to Dem's as they didn't like the ratio's.

Which is why I'm saying gold wasn't the deciding factor, it is different peopls tactics that has made the difference. Many of ours opted to get mantis and send them to save cities, where as others see getting Manti's as pointless and prefer to get HS as they feel the BP will have a more lasting benefit.

However this is getting off topic a bit and getting to specific, so to get back this back on track, I agree:

* Events are too common place.

* Manti's are too strong.

* There are too many prem changes that are replacing skill with gold.

first off you have no idea our reason why we didn't break seige, You are assuming everything you have no idea why we didn't so please stop comparing our alliances its really not going to happen. Just the same as why you guys waited so long to break it since you knew about it in first hour. I'm not going to make assumptions we are in new war. Oh yeah pulled really it was my siege there wasn't much pulled you need to get your facts strait before you say oh yeah it wasn't 100k. Please re look. Honestly we don't care, we just saying what can be done if it was ME or POS seige that happen to we would state it too. Just so happens to be u which we didn't even comment on who it was just stated it in general.

 

[DeletedUser11733]

There has always been gold advantages, this is nothing new and they have always covered up for some players lack of skill and I agree it can be frustrating.

I can understand that yesterday we broke your siege and you didn't break ours that it look like it is 'cos we out spent you but it isn't what happened. It is 'cos we used different tactics to stack and break seiges.

Your players started pulling sup out of support when it looked like they'd be getting bad ratio's so we didn't even kill as much as you claim we did. If you watched the live feed, you would see we didn't lose most of our myths, so we are not having to do too much rebuilding as you are making out and with temple looting it doesn't take weeks to replace nests anymore.

I admit this event is helping with siege breaks, as currently many of us see no reason not to send myths as they are cheap to replace. However some of your players don't see it the same way and opted not to get manti's and send to Dem's as they didn't like the ratio's.

Which is why I'm saying gold wasn't the deciding factor, it is different peopls tactics that has made the difference. Many of ours opted to get mantis and send them to save cities, where as others see getting Manti's as pointless and prefer to get HS as they feel the BP will have a more lasting benefit.

However this is getting off topic a bit and getting to specific, so to get back this back on track, I agree:

* Events are too common place.

* Manti's are too strong.

* There are too many prem changes that are replacing skill with gold.

About different tactics to stack and break sieges, i did not know there is any other tactic to stack a siege except clicking support and timing as close to cs. May be you can enlighten us about any other ways to stack a city.

And sieges are broken when the stack is low. Not when there is more than 70k-100k dlu. There is always reason to let a city go rather than trade it for bad bp ratios.

And regards to your statement "cos it looks like we outspent you".. this is what's wrong with the game. And we both know what's true about how much one spends. If same cities refill myths after getting busted on a siege 2 days earlier and a 25 wall a few hours earlier, something is wrong with the game (not the players who gold them out). Those who spend will always look to use his myths even against 25 wall. Those who don't will like to save it up for snipes/other breakable attempts. That's a very big advantage for those who use gold.

Again i will be happy to shift focus from what happened during the sieges/siege breaks and let bygones be bygones.

Yes, I agree that gold by itself is not a deciding factor. What makes gold deciding factor are the unbalanced events/premium changes that you pointed out yourself. Breaking multiple stacked sieges within a space of two days and instant refilling of myths without any counterbalance tips the game heavily in favor of those who use gold.

 

[DeletedUser6919]

Lol I didn't say anything about the specific sieges in that post; you are the one who keeps bringing it up. I'm making points in general about what Inno is doing to the game. We have similar concerns so stop fluffing your feathers and stay focused.

I brought it up once to say that gold isn't the only factor and doesn't = victory. However I did say on post it was too spesfic and said I'd keep it general.

About different tactics to stack and break sieges, i did not know there is any other tactic to stack a siege except clicking support and timing as close to cs. May be you can enlighten us about any other ways to stack a city.

And sieges are broken when the stack is low. Not when there is more than 70k-100k dlu. There is always reason to let a city go rather than trade it for bad bp ratios.

And regards to your statement "cos it looks like we outspent you".. this is what's wrong with the game. And we both know what's true about how much one spends. Again i will be happy to shift focus from what happened during the sieges/siege breaks and let bygones be bygones.

Yes, I agree that gold by itself is not a deciding factor. What makes gold deciding factor are the unbalanced events/premium changes that you pointed out yourself. Breaking multiple stacked sieges within a space of two days and instant refilling of myths without any counterbalance tips the game heavily in favor of those who use gold.

Even those that don't use gold can rebuild a full manti nuke, with the aid of the event within 2 days. Which is utterly ridiculous as the reward is too powerful and esp as pointed out by missinno there are no archers been given away in the event.

 

[DeletedUser13106]

I brought it up once to say that gold isn't the only factor and doesn't = victory. However I did say on post it was too spesfic and said I'd keep it general.



Even those that don't use gold can rebuild a full manti nuke, with the aid of the event within 2 days. Which is utterly ridiculous as the reward is too powerful and esp as pointed out by missinno there are no archers been given away in the event.

mohit just leave her alone she must be trolling because this has been stated quite a few times and apparently don't get it. You can't help all the people in the world some have to figure it out on there own end of story.

 

[DeletedUser4878]

wow, see a lot of names from actium.

i have to agree with the events are happening way to often. especially since we will feel the effects from it for over a month with the buffs they give. as soon as the events start i stop caring about the game.

when i started playing on EN5 i think there was a couple events a year at most.

can we get a non- hero world with decent speed that only allows gold to be used for advisors?? i would love that to bring strategy back to the game.

 

[DeletedUser11733]

As i pointed out in my edit, those who use gold can bust fliers against 25 walls. If they don't do that, their gold is waste and no reason they should not do that just because they can afford it.

Those who don't use it, they will use it for snipes/once in a blue moon to break important sieges and save it for that.

This advantage is huge, as it has been pretty evident in the game.

 

[DeletedUser6919]

As i pointed out in my edit, those who use gold can bust fliers against 25 walls. If they don't do that, their gold is waste and no reason they should not do that just because they can afford it.

Those who don't use it, they will use it for snipes/once in a blue moon to break important sieges and save it for that.

This advantage is huge, as it has been pretty evident in the game.

The reason it is so evident, is that none gold users are getting the amount of boost that you would expect gold users to get, so when gold users get even more that that, they are getting a crazy advantage and there is no real balance with it.

Today without using gold, I got 89, so I only need 31 tomorrow to get a manti token. Even if I got the lowest possible amount (35) I would be able to get one tomorrow. Without using gold, I have easily been getting enough points to get 2 manti buffs in 3 day period without spending, so I don't see any need to hoard them.

In addition to them being fast to replace without gold, this event runs for so long, so there has been no need to start saving tokens for a rainy day. Now event is coming to an end then people will start storing things however previously there has been no need.

I have spent gold on the event and have paid for manti buffs, but only the odd 60 gold here and there. However players not using gold get too much of an advantage, moderate use like me gets to much of an advantage and those spend lots get way to much of an advantage.

It isn't that inno have brought in a paying element to the event that caused this imo, as there is always a paying element, it is that the event is poorly done and ran for too long.

Comparing harpies and manti again:

Harpies get 1008 pop per token. Each token takes 6 hours, this means 4 tokens max can be used per city, per day. This gives total pop 4032.

Manti get 2160 pop per token. Each token takes 4 hours, this means 6 tokens max can be used per city per day. This gives a total pop 12960.

As has been pointed out on this thread, manti hit harder than harpies, so it is even more uneven.

So there is a more reasonable pop for harpies, they last for a more reasonable duration so players can't use as many in one day, and hops are given away with event and defend best against them.

If mantis were in line with harpies then I don't think that there would be an issue. If in the example I gave higher up 4 manti for 6 hours , then even players using gold would be limited more as they would get half the pop they are now and it would take 50% longer to get it. So it would would have restricted the advantage for gold use and if they gave away archers or centaurs then it would help balance this event out.

 

[DeletedUser]

One small point, centaurs don't balance for cq unless you manage to find an athena city to siege, though.
Something fairly agreed upon are that the balance, power, frequency, and length of these events are all obnoxious.
-The balance causes the gameplay to be silly and make mantis overpowered
-The power leads to a larger disparity between heavy gold users and others
-The frequency and length of the events makes the game less fun, more often, and people will quit as this continues if the events aren't fixed or length reduced

Would also like to note that some games like League of Legends have figured out how to charge players for things without massively skewing the game play in favor of those with large bankrolls. Not sure if this has been attempted by inno or brainstormed, but that would be an ideal solution for all if possible...

 

[DeletedUser2568]

Ok, I will put my 2 cents in here. I have had a love hate relationship with Grepo and Inno for years. I started playing in 1.0, back on the EN servers. I have seen many changes with 2.0, heroes, WW etc. Some have been good and some have been bad. The thought behind these changes though I felt were to improve gameplay and the gaming experience for the players.

The changes I have seen recently with grepo make me feel like it is more about the money and less about improving the gameplay and gaming experience. Those initial changes to 2.0 brought gold use to speeding constructions and units. The outcry was much the same I see here now, "it gives people with money an advantage etc... etc.." but there were other things that people saw as improvements like enhanced display and farms and other enhancements that were free that made it feel that they were also looking out for all gamers.

It doesnt feel that way now and I think that is why you see a bigger unrest with many of the players. I wholeheartedly admit to being a gold user, although I try to do it on a budget and within reason, I still have issue with how things have been going. I would be more fine with gold trading, all of these events, if I felt there was more improvements to gameplay besides these gold events.

The couple enhancements they have made to me have been debacles... the farms and their design now still dont like it. World Wonders... how long have they been talking about fixing this. Come on Inno, give us both sides and not just the business side of Grepo. Feed us this gold "money making" ideas with some INNOVATIVE and GAME-PLAY Enhancements that arent tied to gold. Fix World wonders, etc etc.

You will make it easier for all walks of life to accept changes if you are catering to everyone to some degree. Sorry so long.

 

[DeletedUser13446]

Okay, I understand that Innogames is running a business and is trying to make money, but the game that is advertised as free to play and once required skill and could be played even without spending much money now requires a lot of money to keep up with the top players. Advisors were one thing, but innogames has been pushing the threshold of their 'freemium' model, giving more and more powerful boosts for players that spend gold, including:
-gold trading (some argue this helps pal get free gold, but it still gives advantage to those with gold)
-instabuilding
-starter packages
-insane events with flyer tokens

The latter, especially, has made the game a completely different beast and essentially unplayable. Cities are being staked like we cities, with > 100k dlu and are being shredded, with the flyers being rebuilt 4h with absurd 48 Manticore tokens (actium).

Innogames, I think you know what you are doing, targeting the customers with big wallets who are spending $100's each month, but I think you understand you risk pushing out many other customers as well. Perhaps your gamble is and will continue to pay off, but I know many skilled veterans are fed up with these trends and you will lose many players. I'm not sure if you care or if you plan to slow down your runaway train of gold abuse, but I feel like this issue can't stay unspoken about and wonder if inno even cares about these concerns.

Additionally, I feel like I've seen some pretty sketchy things happen with moderators and attack able bans/pumishments. I find it interesting that the grepolis justice system has a prosecution and a judge, but punishments are doled out before hearing out the defendant. I've seen people permanently banned for dropping an for bomb in a pm after being egged on by enemies, and after he blocked then at the suggestion of the mods, and I've seen people attackable banned for accused bot usage only to be instantly overturned after an appeal where they talked to him. There is so very limited transparency as to why the bans are happening. Operate more like a court of law. Let the defendants speak. Stop being so dang secretive. You shouldn't be operating harsher than our justice system.

Okay, two separate issues here, but I'm fed up with inno right now and many others are too. Please reply to this thread to air your grievances and let's see if inno actually cares about its players as much as it cares about their wallets.

-Demacia

Totally agree with everything. Thanks for putting it down in a more organized way than I would, and with a total absence of cussing out everyone that had even a small part in designing this latest event, because I know I could not do that.

 

[DeletedUser14500]

Look on the bright side. This is cheaper than Porn and your arm doesn't get as tired!

 

[DeletedUser11827]

So many words. Bottom line is that the old way was better. It's not the same game anymore, and the new game sucks.

 

[DeletedUser3712]

Go find a different free game to play, I'm perfectly content spending $100 - $200 a month on the game, I would spend more but you lame whiners are just to easy to beat. Also....not a single person commenting so far has even come close to the many benefits that spending a few dollars will get you in the game...AND you can earn easily 500 gold a day just selling resources. Bottom line...you people are LAME

 

[DeletedUser10669]

Albitzian, if you want to spend that kind of money to play the game, you should. I do not see why Innogames can not cater to you few that want to spend that kind of money. I would ask that they also cater to the rest of their customers as well though.

 

[DeletedUser8351]

I started out a "modest" gold user, about $20.00 a month. I then became a $50 a month player. Now I am a $100 a month player, and I can't continue to do this.

Why can Inno not provide "new servers" that cater to the "modest" gold player? Have servers that JUST offer the advisors, cutting build times in half, like the old days? For those who want to spend $100 or more a month, then offer them a server where they can do that. But I know that I have played for six years, and I'm not doing this any more. My "team" and I have started looking for a new game.

It use to be fun. Now, it simply is not. We play for fun.

 

[DeletedUser4951]

Dunno if you noticed on Helorus, but its not like that would pan out due to people not joining worlds quickly especially with the word "morale" attached to them. Also while I've spent more on instant buy and these events and that bugs me I don't think I've ever spent $100 a month nor have I had to in order to stay competitive. Actually, I think the most I've ever spent at one time was $50.

Here's the thing, I don't even have a problem with the amount of events being held, but I have a huge issue with the content of said events. First there were just harpy tokens, okay fine, build hoplites, chariots, pegs. Now there's manti, harpy, Hydra, and erninyes tokens. Admittedly they FINALLY added defensive tokens which makes this 100% better than they had it before. The defense is a nice reload on worlds where you're starved. But if you're playing conq, even early on it'll be a minimum of 5k DLU to hold a siege on a competitive server. So at least 2/2 speed and no morale enabled. Add maybe an extra 1k DLU for every speed up. That's assuming you're facing an average alliance with some moderate and higher level gold users. A solid team would break jsut about any siege held on it during that time.

I didn't mind these kinds of events when it was Halloween and Easter only with lesser events like the Thracian conquest map in the middle during the summer and the advent calendar in the winter. But now every event at least has harpies and typically they all have these ridiculous level of rewards.

The bottom line is, this isn't okay. It seriously messes up conquest servers when Inno spams events that are just over powered. Nobody builds walls anymore even, what's the point? It makes you a victim come event time.

 

[DeletedUser]

do you think the mods or developers actually read this stuff anymore? these threads are just an outlet for players to blow off steam, dissuading people from filling their inbox (which they would have to actively ignore vs passively ignore). they had to have noticed the overwhelming majority that doesnt likes the recent changes or WW by now. they simply dont care! if they did they would be trying to bring about change rather than feeding us the occasional bit of false hope, usually goes like... "things are in the works", "the developers are working on it" or some bland sentence with the word "soon" arbitrarily thrown in

keep screaming into the void people! change is coming (BUT PROBABLY NOT)