[Discussion] Research

morg

Peltast
Player's Council
Devs would like to know your feedback about 3 proposals regarding Academy research:
  • Stone Hail and Breakthrough could be turned on/off for any attack (Revolt attacks could be sent with Breakthrough)
  • splitting researches (offense / defense and unit types) by introducing new technologies:
    1. Battering ram - 6 points (10% offense for naval units) / Harbor chain - 5 points (10% defense)
      current: Battering ram - 10 points (The fighting power of your ships increases by 10%.)
    2. Phalanx - 5 points (10% offense for land units) / Barricades - 5 points (10% defense)
      current: Phalanx - 9 points (Your troops form a powerful phalanx this fight 10% stronger.)
    3. Divine selection - 6 points (10% offense for myths) / Sacred ground - 5 points (10% defense)
      current: Divine Selection - 10 points (Your mythical units attack and defense strength are increased by 10%.)
    4. Trainer - 3 points (10% reduced recruitment time for land units) / Priestess - 4 points (myths) / Shipwright - 4 points (naval units)
      current: Trainer - 4 points (Your barracks work 10% faster.); Shipwright - 6 points (The harbor works 10% faster.)
    5. Conscription - 3 points (10% reduced resources cost for land units) / Mystic Ritual - 4 points (myths) / Mathematics - 5 points (naval units)
      current: Conscription - 4 points (The cost for land units are lowered by 10%. - myths resources cost too); Mathematics - 6 points (The cost of ships are lowered by 10%. - hydra resources cost too)
  • Crane, Trainer, Shipwright and Priestess research would also speed up the construction / recruitment time of existing orders currently running in the city, once the technology is unlocked.

    You can read here more about this proposal:
    https://devblog.grepolis.com/?p=2127

    1 academy level = 4 research points
note:
we have a community request / idea to revamp Library (allow to delete research without loss of cultural points)



My personal assumptions - morg said:
a flyer city (offense only) could need Divine selection (6) + Priestess (4) + Mystic Ritual (4) instead of current version Divine Selection (10) + Trainer (4) + Conscription (4) - total 14 research points instead of 18 - win 4 points (-1 academy level)
a defense city could need Harbor chain (5) + Barricades (5) instead of current version of Battering ram (10) + Phalanx (9) - total 10 research points instead of 19 - win 9 points
multi-purpose naval city could need Battering ram (6) + Harbor chain (5) + Shipwright (4) + Mathematics (5) instead of current version Battering ram (10) + Shipwright (6) + Mathematics (6) - total 20 research points instead of 22 - win 2 points
a CS city could need however all offense and defense research (1-2-3) on conquest, that's total 32 points instead of 29 - lose 3 points

...if you wanted to specialize cities you could earn more free research points and research more type of units or use a lower academy level and more population
...if you wanted to have more multi-purpose (CS) cities that would cost more research points (higher academy level) or you could research less unit types than now
...potential higher chance of culture loss if you often changed specialization
 
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MarkASp

Peltast
Selectable Stone Hail - I've been asking for that for years (https://us.forum.grepolis.com/index.php?threads/concerns-and-ideas.12025/#post-176626), probably since the feature was added.

The other proposed research changes aren't a big change. If you research the equivalent of the current technologies (current battering ram vs new battering ram/harbor chain), it will cost more in research points and resources, but cheaper if you are selective, so it's probably a wash. Would the academy levels be the same as the current technologies?

On a different note, how about being able to cancel various building/recruiting within 10 seconds or so without losing the resources?
 

Tusc2010

Citizen
Stone Hail and Breakthrough could be turned on/off for any attack (Revolt attacks could be sent with Breakthrough
This absolutely needs to happen. 100% a yes from me.

  • Crane, Trainer, Shipwright and Priestess research would also speed up the construction / recruitment time of existing orders currently running in the city, once the technology is unlocked.
Such a small change...who cares either way tbh

  • splitting researches (offense / defense and unit types) by introducing new technologies:
...
I like these a lot. It really makes people have to consider how they spend their research points because yes, the costs of many researches is reduced, but you don't want to completely specialize offense or specialize defense with some of these. That's because Barricades increases the defense of DLU stationed in your city, not just your own DLU (please make this clearer in the research description), as harbor chain does for biremes.

Now, a completely new idea...what if there was a research added for the final tier, level 34+, which allowed for myth units not of that god to be stationed in the city? Currently very few people upgrade the academy that high...I feel that a good research at that tier would improve the game.
 

HMZephyr

Senior Citizen
Player's Council
I too am a big fan of being able to select if stone hail should be on or off, I hate to use it on a city that doesn't need it, that is for sure. I suppose the same would be for breakthrough, though it is not something I normally would research.

I read the devblog, and seems there are quite a few people against adding/separating these items in the academy. I think it is a great idea to do it, as it will make people actually have to think about what to choose instead of researching the usual. I don't know about anyone else, but I can pretty much do the research in a city with my eyes closed after all these years now, haha. The fact that the point costs adding up to higher totals and the current researches will mean you can't have everything you want in one city will really change the way people think about how their city will be built. Strategy will have to be thought out instead of blindly clicking the normal researches we usually do!
 

Tusc2010

Citizen
I think it is a great idea to do it, as it will make people actually have to think about what to choose instead of researching the usual. I don't know about anyone else, but I can pretty much do the research in a city with my eyes closed after all these years now, haha. The fact that the point costs adding up to higher totals and the current researches will mean you can't have everything you want in one city will really change the way people think about how their city will be built. Strategy will have to be thought out instead of blindly clicking the normal researches we usually do!
I couldn't agree more. If anything, I think the suggested research costs are still too low, but definitely a step in the right direction.
 
Now, a completely new idea...what if there was a research added for the final tier, level 34+, which allowed for myth units not of that god to be stationed in the city?
As much as I love the idea, I doubt it'll be implemented. It'd be cool if that worked though because then frontline cities could all worship any god rather than mainly the ones with defensive myth units like Hades.
 

Tusc2010

Citizen
As much as I love the idea, I doubt it'll be implemented. It'd be cool if that worked though because then frontline cities could all worship any god rather than mainly the ones with defensive myth units like Hades.
I threw that out as a random possibility. :) My main interest is in seeing a research at the level 34 academy that is actually worth the population. Maybe all that needs to happen is a buff on Battle Experience from +10% bp to +15% to have the same effect though.
 
What to do about cheating bitches? There are some players that need to use TOR to setup 20-30 accounts and use them for resources and to cast spells on others. These dam bot armies have given some an unfair advantage and Inno is so freaking greedy they don't police cheating anymore. What kind of company are you f'ing running over there.
 

lurks.alot1

Staff member
What to do about cheating bitches? There are some players that need to use TOR to setup 20-30 accounts and use them for resources and to cast spells on others. These dam bot armies have given some an unfair advantage and Inno is so freaking greedy they don't police cheating anymore. What kind of company are you f'ing running over there.
Suggest you send in a Ticket to Support with your concerns.

I would also remind you to choose your words more carefully in future when using this forum.
 

MarkASp

Peltast
How about the printing press at level 34+ that would allow you to share research across cities (for a 'printing' fee) instead of re-researching everything every city? Maybe a 'fee' per research subject?
 

Tusc2010

Citizen
How about the printing press at level 34+ that would allow you to share research across cities (for a 'printing' fee) instead of re-researching everything every city? Maybe a 'fee' per research subject?
I know you won't take this personally because I have been a big supporter of many ideas you have had in the past. But my initial reaction to this was ewwwww haha. It removes specialization of cities, which is like half the strategy in the game.
 

MarkASp

Peltast
I know you won't take this personally because I have been a big supporter of many ideas you have had in the past. But my initial reaction to this was ewwwww haha. It removes specialization of cities, which is like half the strategy in the game.
I don't take things like this personally. Just throwing out an idea. Just seems silly to need to re-research things like City Militia and Archer every city.
 

morg

Peltast
Player's Council
It is an interesting idea to be able to research something in all cities without extra clicks, but I'm not sure it would enrich the game or that this function would be used often.

GRC Tools /approved script/ has a tool: Academy overview which is similar to the premium function Buildings overview - it takes a few more clicks than 'print' a research, but lets you modify researches quite fast.
upload_2018-8-28_12-2-28.png

You can also activate a city group and then use this Academy overview to check whether you have the right research for the city type you picked.
For example my lighthsip cities all have Ram, Cartography (except for those that are in building.)
upload_2018-8-28_12-10-9.png
 

Char Aznable

Citizen
Devs would like to know your feedback about 3 proposals regarding Academy research:
  • Stone Hail and Breakthrough could be turned on/off for any attack (Revolt attacks could be sent with Breakthrough)
  • splitting researches (offense / defense and unit types) by introducing new technologies:
    1. Battering ram - 6 points (10% offense for naval units) / Harbor chain - 5 points (10% defense)
      current: Battering ram - 10 points (The fighting power of your ships increases by 10%.)
    2. Phalanx - 5 points (10% offense for land units) / Barricades - 5 points (10% defense)
      current: Phalanx - 9 points (Your troops form a powerful phalanx this fight 10% stronger.)
    3. Divine selection - 6 points (10% offense for myths) / Sacred ground - 5 points (10% defense)
      current: Divine Selection - 10 points (Your mythical units attack and defense strength are increased by 10%.)
    4. Trainer - 3 points (10% reduced recruitment time for land units) / Priestess - 4 points (myths) / Shipwright - 4 points (naval units)
      current: Trainer - 4 points (Your barracks work 10% faster.); Shipwright - 6 points (The harbor works 10% faster.)
    5. Conscription - 3 points (10% reduced resources cost for land units) / Mystic Ritual - 4 points (myths) / Mathematics - 5 points (naval units)
      current: Conscription - 4 points (The cost for land units are lowered by 10%. - myths resources cost too); Mathematics - 6 points (The cost of ships are lowered by 10%. - hydra resources cost too)
  • Crane, Trainer, Shipwright and Priestess research would also speed up the construction / recruitment time of existing orders currently running in the city, once the technology is unlocked.

    You can read here more about this proposal:
    https://devblog.grepolis.com/?p=2127

    1 academy level = 4 research points
note:
we have a community request / idea to revamp Library (allow to delete research without loss of cultural points)

morg - are we basing the proposal on the former academy pre-CS changes? Or are there intentions to reverting back to the former academy build & then applying these proposed changes? CS is not currently 22-24 block?
 

morg

Peltast
Player's Council
@Char Aznable nice catch!
My impression is that the research splitting proposal and the CS changes overlapped (2.145 - 2017 August). We brought up again this old proposal, because it didn't get an overall good feedback first time, despite current GPC suggested some elements of it (optional stone hail) based on community feedback. I doubt that reverting the CS change is a goal, but to be sure I will get a confirmation about this.
 
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