Innogames ruining grepolis: gold abuse & events, etc.

[DeletedUser]

Okay, I understand that Innogames is running a business and is trying to make money, but the game that is advertised as free to play and once required skill and could be played even without spending much money now requires a lot of money to keep up with the top players. Advisors were one thing, but innogames has been pushing the threshold of their 'freemium' model, giving more and more powerful boosts for players that spend gold, including:
-gold trading (some argue this helps pal get free gold, but it still gives advantage to those with gold)
-instabuilding
-starter packages
-insane events with flyer tokens

The latter, especially, has made the game a completely different beast and essentially unplayable. Cities are being staked like we cities, with > 100k dlu and are being shredded, with the flyers being rebuilt 4h with absurd 48 Manticore tokens (actium).

Innogames, I think you know what you are doing, targeting the customers with big wallets who are spending $100's each month, but I think you understand you risk pushing out many other customers as well. Perhaps your gamble is and will continue to pay off, but I know many skilled veterans are fed up with these trends and you will lose many players. I'm not sure if you care or if you plan to slow down your runaway train of gold abuse, but I feel like this issue can't stay unspoken about and wonder if inno even cares about these concerns.

Additionally, I feel like I've seen some pretty sketchy things happen with moderators and attack able bans/pumishments. I find it interesting that the grepolis justice system has a prosecution and a judge, but punishments are doled out before hearing out the defendant. I've seen people permanently banned for dropping an f bomb in a pm after being egged on by enemies, and after he blocked then at the suggestion of the mods, and I've seen people attackable banned for accused bot usage only to be instantly overturned after an appeal where they talked to him. There is so very limited transparency as to why the bans are happening. Operate more like a court of law. Let the defendants speak. Stop being so dang secretive. You shouldn't be operating harsher than our justice system.

Okay, two separate issues here, but I'm fed up with inno right now and many others are too. Please reply to this thread to air your grievances and let's see if inno actually cares about its players as much as it cares about their wallets.

-Demacia

 

[DeletedUser11733]

It's ridiculous that you can kill troops in all your cities and use countless tokens from the events. And not to mention the instabuy, where walls can be golded up/down in minutes and troops can be built so quick.

Those who don't use gold, can't win if a siege with pegs and centaurs and 100k dlu stack can be shred to bits.

thank you inno, i think it's time to quit the game for good.

 

[DeletedUser13106]

I don't see where the deck is in your favor. If you wanted to make quick cash you have but world i'm in is suffering really bad i have never seen a harsher world. You have to spend 100 bucks a month and the average person can't spend that much. Sure your make fast cash but you going to loose all your addicted long term customers who are the reason you became so big in the first place. Most games get there people from references i have changed from telling people to play this to don't play it all they want is your money and its free game to play. i will be going back to wow to have fun a 15 dollar a month game where i don't have to worry ill lose everything if i don't log in in a hour.

 

[DeletedUser13106]

Oh i forgot one more thing all our spouses are going to send you love mail no more logging in on there time to dodge or no more waking up to attacks in the middle of the night they will be your biggest fans but they won't give you money so i'm sure you won't be happy with that>

 

[DeletedUser]

Quitting...

It's ridiculous that you can kill troops in all your cities and use countless tokens from the events. And not to mention the instabuy, where walls can be golded up/down in minutes and troops can be built so quick.

Those who don't use gold, can't win if a siege with pegs and centaurs and 100k dlu stack can be shred to bits.

thank you inno, i think it's time to quit the game for good.

It's not as hard as one thinks to just leave. Oh sure you get the occasional urge to go check the account to see who's grabbed what. But leaving is not a bad thing. Here are the top 10 list of things you gain by quitting grep. ;-)

1. Save's you some sanity!
2. Save's you some money (even if you just put a bit down for advisors $10 bucks is still in your pocket)
3. Relationship in real life prosper.
4. Sleep.
5. Did I mention real sleep?
6. Skype mates you can still chat with and biatch about the pathetic way of golf Grep went.
7. Find out there actually is a life you can have outside ie nature and reality.
8. Grep causes waffle ***. Constantly sitting looking at your *** expanding, once you quit you start seeing it melt away because your physically doing something besides just watching incoming golded attacks.
9. Work gets more attention than the app on your phone so your boss is happier.
10. Grep is a waste of freaking time there I said it.

 

[DeletedUser9014]

First off, I'll say I agree completely with this thread and Demacia, good on you for bringing it up in a succinct way.

I will say I can and do use gold with the best of them. I don't agree with the hate on the gold w*&%e comments though. It's a simple formula of don't hate the player, hate the game. Player use what's at their disposal to get ahead, that's the way games, sports and RL are.
InnoGames as stated is a for profit organization so they try and entice their players to spend more and more. On that principle you can't fault them. If it was your business you would almost certainly have the same approach regarding your revenue stream.

Now here's where I think and wholeheartedly agree that InnoGames is absolutely ruining the game play. To have these myth units which in old Grep would take months to build flying around everywhere crushing DLU (almost everyone plays with zero walls now) ruins the game play. It makes what used to be a somewhat balanced game and makes a mockery of what this game once was..........a good strategy and tactical game.

Now even though I use whack loads of gold, I am on the side of this being ridiculous. If I didn't have the means to buy gold, this game would be absolutely absurd and I wouldn't play it. If you don't use gold or even moderately use gold now, you are at a terrible disadvantage.
I really wish InnoGames would spend a portion of the programming and creative to make these events to fix what the majority of players think is terrible........World Wonders.

I think it's good that we vent our concerns with the game. It's the only way the folks that make the decisions can fix it or choose to ignore it. Bottom line, the dollars will always speak louder so whichever side those dollars fall, InnoGames is sure to follow.

 

[DeletedUser12251]

Okay, I understand that Innogames is running a business and is trying to make money, but the game that is advertised as free to play and once required skill and could be played even without spending much money now requires a lot of money to keep up with the top players. Advisors were one thing, but innogames has been pushing the threshold of their 'freemium' model, giving more and more powerful boosts for players that spend gold, including:
-gold trading (some argue this helps pal get free gold, but it still gives advantage to those with gold)
-instabuilding
-starter packages
-insane events with flyer tokens

The latter, especially, has made the game a completely different beast and essentially unplayable. Cities are being staked like we cities, with > 100k dlu and are being shredded, with the flyers being rebuilt 4h with absurd 48 Manticore tokens (actium).

Innogames, I think you know what you are doing, targeting the customers with big wallets who are spending $100's each month, but I think you understand you risk pushing out many other customers as well. Perhaps your gamble is and will continue to pay off, but I know many skilled veterans are fed up with these trends and you will lose many players. I'm not sure if you care or if you plan to slow down your runaway train of gold abuse, but I feel like this issue can't stay unspoken about and wonder if inno even cares about these concerns.

Additionally, I feel like I've seen some pretty sketchy things happen with moderators and attack able bans/pumishments. I find it interesting that the grepolis justice system has a prosecution and a judge, but punishments are doled out before hearing out the defendant. I've seen people permanently banned for dropping an for bomb in a pm after being egged on by enemies, and after he blocked then at the suggestion of the mods, and I've seen people attackable banned for accused bot usage only to be instantly overturned after an appeal where they talked to him. There is so very limited transparency as to why the bans are happening. Operate more like a court of law. Let the defendants speak. Stop being so dang secretive. You shouldn't be operating harsher than our justice system.

Okay, two separate issues here, but I'm fed up with inno right now and many others are too. Please reply to this thread to air your grievances and let's see if inno actually cares about its players as much as it cares about their wallets.

-Demacia

Pretty much all of my issues with this game. Actium will be my last world as gold is more valuable at this point than actual talent. And the bans are ridiculous. Anybody who knows of my ban early on in Actium should be aware of the poor moderation going on. Thankfully I found 1 mod with common sense who realized I shouldn't be banned.

 

[DeletedUser7768]

I watched a player that is part of one of your pacts drop over $3000 at one time in the last world that we played in and from my understanding that was not just a 1 time thing.. I wonder how many times this same player has spent a few K to help people in your alliance or you. You may not use gold like that but you most defiantly benefit from people that do use it and I dont see you turning down the help from them either.

 

[DeletedUser6919]

Now here's where I think and wholeheartedly agree that InnoGames is absolutely ruining the game play. To have these myth units which in old Grep would take months to build flying around everywhere crushing DLU (almost everyone plays with zero walls now) ruins the game play. It makes what used to be a somewhat balanced game and makes a mockery of what this game once was..........a good strategy and tactical game.

Heavy gold users never had a shortage of myth units and could rebuild full nukes pretty much instantly. So getting them in event or paying for them the old fashioned way makes no difference, as real goldies could always rebuild full nests that day.

If anything, one relatively recent game change has actually helped to close that gap between heavy user and none gold user, temple looting.

Since it has been introduced, all players can rebuild myths pretty quickly, not just heavy gold users. Although I would prefer if it, if it worked more like looting res, and say 3 favor per farm lv was stashed away and not looted, like 500 per warehouse lv is protected, I do like it and it has added a new tactical element to the game.

However this being introduced is the reason that walls have disappeared and myths are so common place, not these events. If a player is smart and uses a good favor farming system they can rebuild their nests quickly without needing to spend anything.

Personally I ike manti buffs for events, but I question the logic behind the number been given away.

For this event I can spend 120 to get 12 harpies for 6 hours, this totals 1008 pop

or

spending the same amount, I'd get 12 manti's for 4 hours, this totals 2160 pop.

That is the same cost for over twice the pop and it's just too much imo. I think if they dropped it down to a more reasonable number of manti's, say 4 manits per hour for 6 hours, that would be 24 mantis, totalling 1080 pop, which brings it in line with the harpies.

(also think to drop Erinys to the same as currently this reward gives a total 2640 pop)

I think these events are fine, when there is an slight advantage to having them. However been able to rebuild nearly full nukes in 4 hours is just too powerful, when so many people stopped building walls when temple looting was brought in.

However where I do agree with you is that inno are throwing off the balance of the game, is running these events for too long/often. they are fun for a week but it's just getting to be too much.

 

[DeletedUser656]

Do you Hate people that have jobs????................. Really? That's it, that's your best, "capitalize" and make a point card? The point seems to have eluded you, you should stop now... All I have to say on this matter.

 

[DeletedUser11733]

I'm not accusing you, Demacia, of botting.

I will accuse you of whining.

Every alliance here faces the same challenges that you do. Every alliance here has members who are willing to do anything to win, including spend money on gold. Including yours. You have people willing to buy gold over there too, and I know for sure you have people willing to buy gold in your pacts mates - why aren't they helping you out more. (this is the strategy part)

Grepolis has expenses they have to cover. If they have people willing to pay them, good for them. Why is loosing sleep and being available to respond to the game 24/7, or having the free time to 5 min farm any more noble than purchasing gold. DO YOU HATE PEOPLE WHO HAVE JOBS?

Well, this statement shows your limited gameplay ability and next to no understanding of what this game was supposed to be.

We all have jobs and none I know farm every 5 mins all the time in the day. Gold should no doubt give a little advantage for those who invest in the game.

But it should not be substitute to skill and strategy. Speaking of strategy, it's always better to break sieges when a stack is low. Not when it has been fully stacked with centaurs and pegasi guarding it and siege break with fliers is impossible under normal circumstances. Someone should not be able to purchase 10 manticore nukes in a day and refill it everytime.

Skills like timing attacks and snipes are rarely a feature in this game now-a-days. Rest assured the game has changed to "Pay to win" contest, nothing else, which is why no longer will veterans stick to this game.

 

[DeletedUser11733]

Heavy gold users never had a shortage of myth units and could rebuild full nukes pretty much instantly. So getting them in event or paying for them the old fashioned way makes no difference, as real goldies could always rebuild full nests that day.

If anything, one relatively recent game change has actually helped to close that gap between heavy user and none gold user, temple looting.

Since it has been introduced, all players can rebuild myths pretty quickly, not just heavy gold users. Although I would prefer if it, if it worked more like looting res, and say 3 favor per farm lv was stashed away and not looted, like 500 per warehouse lv is protected, I do like it and it has added a new tactical element to the game.

However this being introduced is the reason that walls have disappeared and myths are so common place, not these events. If a player is smart and uses a good favor farming system they can rebuild their nests quickly without needing to spend anything.

Personally I ike manti buffs for events, but I question the logic behind the number been given away.

For this event I can spend 120 to get 12 harpies for 6 hours, this totals 1008 pop

or

spending the same amount, I'd get 12 manti's for 4 hours, this totals 2160 pop.

That is the same cost for over twice the pop and it's just too much imo. I think if they dropped it down to a more reasonable number of manti's, say 4 manits per hour for 6 hours, that would be 24 mantis, totalling 1080 pop, which brings it in line with the harpies.

(also think to drop Erinys to the same as currently this reward gives a total 2640 pop)

I think these events are fine, when there is an slight advantage to having them. However been able to rebuild nearly full nukes in 4 hours is just too powerful, when so many people stopped building walls when temple looting was brought in.

However where I do agree with you is that inno are throwing off the balance of the game, is running these events for too long/often. they are fun for a week but it's just getting to be too much.

I like this analysis, and the new changes they made (temple looting/stone hail). But they overlooked some basic maths. Especially with purification as a spell.

I can build divine envoys in every town for artemis and poseidon. If I see incoming cs, i can favor farm cities around me, multiple times, and cast multiple purifications and sea-storms.

If a cs escort has more than 39 ls, it risks getting sea-stormed first chance, and if it has less, with favor farming, it can lose all escorts after 6 sea storms. Players with multiple cities can just fast favor farm and make timed conquests virtually impossible. All you have to rely on now-a-days on having your opponent stay offline for a few hours to take their cities. I have done this myself many times and i felt there was no fun in that.

May be inno could do something to rectify this game mechanic?

Plus event tokens are ridiculous in certain worlds. In speed 2/3 or speed 2/2 worlds, you get 12 hour cq time and get 24 manties from the event in 4 hours.
But in speed 4/3 worlds (us45-actium), it's again 12 hours cq time but with 48 manties in 4 hours. Can anyone explain the logic to me?

 

[DeletedUser4460]

Every alliance here faces the same challenges that you do. Every alliance here has members who are willing to do anything to win, including spend money on gold. Including yours. You have people willing to buy gold over there too, and I know for sure you have people willing to buy gold in your pacts mates - why aren't they helping you out more. (this is the strategy part)

Grepolis has expenses they have to cover. If they have people willing to pay them, good for them. Why is loosing sleep and being available to respond to the game 24/7, or having the free time to 5 min farm any more noble than purchasing gold.

Without the insults this I can agree with. Grepo always offered advantage for those who could afford it, while the basic premium features has become reachable for everyone without even investing effective money on it (gold trade) it is a reasonable demand to give wider variety of features and more for their money for those who pay /on behalf of the non premium users too/ - nothing is free. All the game features are available for every user without spending money, why do I have to pay for it then
Somewhere it has to be shown that more money can give more advantage, otherwise no one would pay therefore no one could play.

I think the reason why more people - even big gold users - are unhappy now is that this event is more unbalanced than usual.
You can buy manticore/erynis/harpies but only hoplite as defense, what is not much help if you have Chiron, this is causing 3 maybe 4 weeks of pain on CQ worlds, where you can not get cities without proper defense - seems like game designers only thought about revolt.
No one is buying harpies, only manticores, because the complementary units (archer, centaur) are missing from the options. All we do is mass rebuild DLU, especially archers. Very lame event that forces you to build 1 type of unit for weeks...!
It has become harder to hold a siege by low wall than anytime before in the past 5 years of my grepo career and I believe we can not blame this all on gold. I don't think it is a big request to make events that keep the players happy while you empty our pockets... on positive note the community bonuses are nice.
despite all I love (miss)Inno(cence)

 

[DeletedUser4460]

addition to MissChievousPixie
check the offense value of the units... it is more unbalanced than you would think population wise, they not only give more for the same price but stronger units are cheaper and build faster...
295 x 12 x 6 = 21,240 blunt (harpies) 1008 pop
1010 x 12 x 4 = 48,480 sharp (manticores) 2060 pop
1700 x 12 x 4 = 81,600 distance (erinyes) 2640 pop

logical would be to use the favor / resources need of myths to determine the price / amount...
harpies 85 favor (3780rss) 38 per hour
manticore 270 favor (12150rss) 12 per hour
erinyes 330 favor (16500rss) 10 per hour

25 harpies for 6 hours - 120
12 manticore for 4 hours - 120
10 erinyes for 4 hours - 120

or

12 harpies for 6 hours - 60
12 manticore for 4 hours - 120
12 erinyes for 4 hours - 150

or

keep it unbalanced, but add a new hero to decrease building time / cost of archers.

 

[DeletedUser11733]

I watched a player that is part of one of your pacts drop over $3000 at one time in the last world that we played in and from my understanding that was not just a 1 time thing.. I wonder how many times this same player has spent a few K to help people in your alliance or you. You may not use gold like that but you most defiantly benefit from people that do use it and I dont see you turning down the help from them either.

You sir, are the reason why everything is getting worse in the game. You are trying to justify the massive advantage heavy gold users get over those who use minimal gold. And you are also justifying the fact outspending opponents gets you the advantage.

I think the points made in the original thread completely glossed over your head. May be you should reread everything before commenting.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand its a business driven by money but when money is the ONLY drive in your game development you will drive a lot of your players from the game. this event is just a money grab for innogames, they can come up with events every 3rd week but fail to fix major game flaws like... idk WW for years.

I would point out that a pegs and other myths DO NOT counterbalance the attacking myths in game... you cant support sieges with them if the god is wrong (or right if youre a smart defender pre cs landing) while harps and mantis have no restrictions on attacking

hoping for the Mega-griff tokens next event (a.k.a. Flying Trolls) they come with stone hailx2 and produce 60 griff every 20 min

 

[DeletedUser6919]

You sir, are the reason why everything is getting worse in the game. You are trying to justify the massive advantage heavy gold users get over those who use minimal gold. And you are also justifying the fact outspending opponents gets you the advantage.

I think the points made in the original thread completely glossed over your head. May be you should reread everything before commenting.

I think you missed his point.

Dusty was pointing out that people complaining about gold use on this thread, benefit from gold, even if they don't use a lot as individuals, as others on their team do and this aids them.

Not everyone of us who sent attacks at your siege yesterday use gold, most don't or they use very little. Yes we have some heavy gold users but you'll do too so it evens out.

At the end of the day, you have the same advantages that we did. If anything, you guys actually had a greater advantage, as not only do you guys spend more on gold, you have double the number of players.

He is also making the point that after your allies spent so much on WW in Chi, they didn't pay for the win; they lost. So players can't buy victory which is what this thread is implying.

I agree that gold use is giving players too much of an advantage and it is getting silly but as Klum said all teams have to face the same thing so in a way it is still a lv playing field.

Realistically spending a lot of gold doesn't make someone a good player, if it did, then White plague would have been one of the best players I've ever met and he wouldn't have had to send out as many PMs to people giving his lame excuses about why he had failed to take a city this time.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think you missed his point.

Dusty was pointing out that people complaining about gold use on this thread, benefit from gold, even if they don't use a lot as individuals, as others on their team do and this aids them.

Not everyone of us who sent attacks at your siege yesterday use gold, most don't or they use very little. Yes we have some heavy gold users but you'll do too so it evens out.

At the end of the day, you have the same advantages that we did. If anything, you guys actually had a greater advantage, as not only do you guys spend more on gold, you have double the number of players.

However we held our siege and broke yours. That was not due to gold use, but due to different tactics.

He is also making the point that after your allies spent so much on WW in Chi, they didn't pay for the win, they lost. So players can't buy victory which is what this thread is saying.

I agree that gold use is giving players too much of an advantage and it is getting silly but as Klum said all teams have to face the same thing so in a way it is still a lv playing field.

Realistically if the more gold a player uses makes them a better player then White plague would have been one of the best players I've ever met and he wouldn't have had to send out as many PMs to people giving his lame excuses about why he had failed to take a city this time

fighting and winning wonders are two very different things. winning WW through diplomacy/recruiting requires zero gold (us23) but gold spending increases your odds of taking cities, saying it doesn't is just false. Issue is balancing the tactical qualities of the game with the companies profits, major gold spending helps some players make up for major tactical errors which bothers a number of players.

 

[DeletedUser13106]

I think you missed his point.

Dusty was pointing out that people complaining about gold use on this thread, benefit from gold, even if they don't use a lot as individuals, as others on their team do and this aids them.

Not everyone of us who sent attacks at your siege yesterday use gold, most don't or they use very little. Yes we have some heavy gold users but you'll do too so it evens out.

At the end of the day, you have the same advantages that we did. If anything, you guys actually had a greater advantage, as not only do you guys spend more on gold, you have double the number of players.

He is also making the point that after your allies spent so much on WW in Chi, they didn't pay for the win; they lost. So players can't buy victory which is what this thread is implying.

I agree that gold use is giving players too much of an advantage and it is getting silly but as Klum said all teams have to face the same thing so in a way it is still a lv playing field.

Realistically spending a lot of gold doesn't make someone a good player, if it did, then White plague would have been one of the best players I've ever met and he wouldn't have had to send out as many PMs to people giving his lame excuses about why he had failed to take a city this time.

Hello we saying how unfair advantage it was we are mad at the game. You guys are just using the game as they want you to spending more money. You may state you guys didn't used it but come on you broke a seige already before almost same amount what 1 day or two ago? I honestly don't believe you but it doesn't matter. Fact here is not about a alliance its about fact this world has only been out for what 2 months now or three? 100k seige was broken by flyers. In the 5 or more years i played i've not seen this broken in so early. Infact its hard to find any citeis with walls making a average person need there whole alliance to take a city. You know how boring it is for average person to wait week to take a city because they have to wait for there whole alliance support? Most people are making cities because of that and honestly i don't find any fun in simming.

 

[DeletedUser11733]

I think you missed his point.

Dusty was pointing out that people complaining about gold use on this thread, benefit from gold, even if they don't use a lot as individuals, as others on their team do and this aids them.

Not everyone of us who sent attacks at your siege yesterday use gold, most don't or they use very little. Yes we have some heavy gold users but you'll do too so it evens out.

At the end of the day, you have the same advantages that we did. If anything, you guys actually had a greater advantage, as not only do you guys spend more on gold, you have double the number of players.

He is also making the point that after your allies spent so much on WW in Chi, they didn't pay for the win; they lost. So players can't buy victory which is what this thread is implying.

I agree that gold use is giving players too much of an advantage and it is getting silly but as Klum said all teams have to face the same thing so in a way it is still a lv playing field.

Realistically spending a lot of gold doesn't make someone a good player, if it did, then White plague would have been one of the best players I've ever met and he wouldn't have had to send out as many PMs to people giving his lame excuses about why he had failed to take a city this time.

I never said we don't benefit from gold. The point of using gold is to get a bit of advantage. But not in the way that completely provides unfair advantage that should have been impossible to get otherwise. As spartans189 pointed, if using gold covers up for tactical mistakes, it gives to be an unfair advantage to those who makes mistakes.

Considering the fact that a 70k dlu defense was already shreded 2 days ago and a few players already busted fliers to siege a 25 wall town, i am surprised the same cities got rebuilt with 48+ manti nukes. And it was more than 3-4 nukes that got busted on a 25 wall city.

And the event tokens only allow 1 manti nuke per day with minimal gold (60 gold) even if you are lucky enough to miss all 2 pointers.

I understand its a business driven by money but when money is the ONLY drive in your game development you will drive a lot of your players from the game. this event is just a money grab for innogames, they can come up with events every 3rd week but fail to fix major game flaws like... idk WW for years.

I would point out that a pegs and other myths DO NOT counterbalance the attacking myths in game... you cant support sieges with them if the god is wrong (or right if youre a smart defender pre cs landing) while harps and mantis have no restrictions on attacking

hoping for the Mega-griff tokens next event (a.k.a. Flying Trolls) they come with stone hailx2 and produce 60 griff every 20 min

i am not saying pegs and centaurs counter balance fliers. The city was found out as athena town and as a result, the mythic athena defense was sent, which actually fares better vs fliers. If the city was found to be artemis town, pigs would have been sent instead. (Although very few make pigs when you can make griffins)

P.S: griffin tokens? why not? Democritus event is coming this halloween. May be your wish gets fulfilled