The Last 24 Hours.

morg

Peltast
Player's Council
And my original question remains, there must be a way of telling the offender that this or that script was detected without divulging HOW that script was detected, in all of the responses from the moderators, that I saw, it was only stated that a script (unamed) was being used to build cities and troops while the user was offline. Without telling us what the offending script is, how then can we ensure that we do not get banned again. This is needed for the ones who were that were using only approved scripts
Since we are all pro speculators here... it is irrelevant which illegal script they detected, I guess bots don't leave a signature... they ban because they recognize actions what a regular player couldn't produce without automation or that's what they should recognize, but some of us are human robots...

Infact some of the approved scripts automatically add resources when you trade (DIO recruitment trade, GRC wonder tool), so I never really understood how those approved scripts are not controversial with the game rules.
 

morg

Peltast
Player's Council
Maybe its time to look at the requirements to be a Moderator, I know plenty of people that have applied, but have all been turned down. Probably missed out on some great ones too that actually had decent knowledge of the game and would have been a huge help with this shortage the US seems to have.
Amen.

btw one of the requirements is:
  • Be able to respond to tickets within 12 hours
no comment

https://recruit.innogames.de/grepo/us/index/page/show/in-game-moderator-profile
 

donnacus

Citizen
And my original question remains, there must be a way of telling the offender that this or that script was detected without divulging HOW that script was detected, in all of the responses from the moderators, that I saw, it was only stated that a script (unamed) was being used to build cities and troops while the user was offline. Without telling us what the offending script is, how then can we ensure that we do not get banned again. This is needed for the ones who were that were using only approved scripts
I was only favoring our ww build when I was banned. I was not building units or building and my captain was expired so I was only farming in a very few cities. How do they know when I am online. I got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and while up, I accelerated the build. when I got up in the morning I was banned. I am over it! I have yet to decide if I hand over my account or play out my current world. I have already disputed my last two gold purchases on paypal. No matter what I decide about my current world. Inno will not get one red cent of my money in the future.

The only thing they understand is money. I urge all affected to follow my example. Hit them where it hurts. If everyone files for a paypal refund perhaps they will think twice the next time they roll out a "bot checker"
 
Last edited:

phil vgr8

Citizen
Hi guys,

Thanks for your responses so far. I'll try to answer specific questions and points as best I can, to the best of my knowledge. If there is something I'm not sure of, I'll try to find out. Some of the answers I give, however, I can give with relative certainty.

So what or any are the new procedures for updates???
1.Like opening a testing world to use for all updates prior to going live!
2. Actually implementing updates while the development team is available and not off all weekend??? To trouble shot any issues or seemingly minor glitches

I am here to help

Dave
We already have a public beta which runs in line with a different update sprint schedule to the live servers. Updates are applied here prior to being released live. Nothing really needs to change with the update schedule we use for the overall game. The update was implemented on the 18th, the issue itself didn't come to light until later in the week. Its reasonable feedback that more testing could have been done since the changes were implemented, yes.

Do you test run your updated tools before you put them out in the game at all?

I do appreciate that someone finally spoke up and admitted fault and apologized, hoping to see something come out in game in a message also explaining it for those that do not check the external forum.

Maybe its time to look at the requirements to be a Moderator, I know plenty of people that have applied, but have all been turned down. Probably missed out on some great ones too that actually had decent knowledge of the game and would have been a huge help with this shortage the US seems to have.
We do. The issue is isolated to the US server, and wasn't apparent on other servers. I'll have to see about the ingame message, whilst I appreciate the sentiment, these things can honestly do more harm than good, with players not already involved in any way second guessing their enemies and allies alike. I'm not going to comment on new team members, its kind of outside my remit. I'll let the CM address this when they return.

Totally agree, especially about the bans. I believe that nearly all of them were a result of the glitch. Also does inno not have the technology to turn back a server?
The feasibility isn't really the question here, more the potential impact such an action could have. This has of course had a significant impact to those directly in the line of fire, either those who were banned wrongly, or those who suffered losses as a result. In the grand scheme of things though, rolling back a server entails involving every single player within that server, and is arguably more damaging than offering individual compensation. I get how that sounds, I really do, but the picture is bigger than just those players touched by this issue.

With that being said, I'll certainly ask the question, although I suspect I know the answer.

Actually this has been altered it did actually say 6 hours and I have a screen shot of it will find it and post in here this alone is an admission of guilt

Also the basis I claimed 180k gold bk via PayPal from inno thanks to medic been so incompetent to put it politely
I could be wrong, but I don't think the US page has been altered. EN's page has always had a 6 hour requirement, however:

https://recruit.innogames.de/grepo/en/index/page/show/ingame-moderator-job-profile

I want you all to know I'll be collating the feedback received in here, and articulating it as best I can. Lastly, I hear you on the compensation offered, and I want you to understand I'll try my best to put your points across.

Thanks again,

Richard

EDIT: I say EN has "always" had a 6 hour requirement, I may well be wrong. Its may have been different for my community in the past, but I can't remember a time in the recent future that this has been the case.
 
Last edited:

Char Aznable

Citizen
While I hate seeing such a large situation impacting an entire region of the Earth (US), seemingly implemented by a foreign national entity across the internet with the express intent of manipulating the politics/course of it's citizens....wait isn't this already a current news story from 2015?

Follow the Great Sage Yoda "Do or do not, there is no Try." It's been a week since it occurred. The time for whining, complaining & waiting for a human response is over. Hanging onto some vague belief you will receive better treatment or satisfaction is ridiculous.

This is not the first time it's occurred. It won't be the last time. The only question you have to have answered is "How long will you allow yourself to be a victim?"
 
Last edited:

Corwin36

Citizen
I would really like to know why the US server was the only one that had these problems, It seems just as likely a angry Coma did it on purpose and then disappeared, it seems to have been somewhat targeted from what I can tell. No proof but honest questions
 

write1red

Newcomer
Hey everyone,

We have been informed today about a potential glitch in one of our internal tools which is used to detect bots. This glitch was introduced with a recent update to the tool and unfortunately was not discovered in a timely enough manner to avoid the current situation. Updates to existing moderation tools happen regularly in order to keep the systems as up to date as possible and usually they come with no notable errors.

Unfortunately we discovered that there have been some very specific technical complications on the US market, causing the tool to malfunction in some reported cases. We are very sorry about the obvious inconveniences caused by this situation and are currently reviewing all bot bans that have been issued since the tool’s update. We will unban any players who have been wrongfully banned, and not yet been unbanned, as quickly as possible. These players, as well as all others whose unjustified bans have already been rectified, will be compensated accordingly.

Thus far, we luckily only discovered a few cases that were influenced by this glitch. Most of the cases we found to be fully conclusive. Therefore, we could confirm that a lot of bans were valid and completely in accordance with our policies and regulations, so none of the blame should be directed to the moderation teams who handled the cases strictly as advised and indicated by the faulty tool.

We can of course understand your frustration especially in regards to the consequences of this seemingly minor glitch, and have therefore already taken all necessary steps to restore the tools to their full, bug-free functionality to avoid any further wrong bans to be issued.

Please understand that we may not discuss individual cases on the forums or any other communication channels. We will only talk directly via the support system with the affected players. If you were affected by any of the recent bans and verifiably did not use any such tools, you will find a report in-game about a compensation which was added to your account.

We would like to deeply apologize to all fair players who were targeted by our systems based on a faulty detection method and hope that our compensation will help you to get back on your feet. It's the fair players that make Grepolis the great game it is and it was clearly not our intention to harm you in any way.

Best regards,
Your Grepolis Team

.
It's hard not to stand aghast while I try to pull my chin up from the ground. Really! You were only informed TODAY? Such a far-reaching technical complication should have been handled immediately. (Please note that i avoided the term "minor glitch" from your message, which intentionally minimizes the severity of the fiasco and the damage done to all players on the servers affected, not merely the banned ones.) I cannot understand why some hotline to the higher ups with decision-making capabilities does not exist. Any smart business has safeguards in place for glitches or, in this case, major disasters. I cannot shake my astonishment that it has taken this long for an official pronouncement, albeit one that reluctantly admits with minimal candidness to the grepolis community the nature and facts of the debacle.

Will Inno address their lack of transparency? You state that "most of the cases were fully conclusive". I am interested in seeing the hard data on this. I want to know how many players received bans overall and how many bans were removed. I don't want manipulated numbers, but raw, verifiable data. Perhaps then I can accept, though still with some hesitancy since Inno has destroyed my trust, that "the cases were fully conclusive."

Yes, I do believe your statement that "it was clearly not our intention to harm you in any way." However, most of us are probably familiar with it's aphoristic corollary: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." The new roll-out indeed put countless players and their alliances through a sort of grepo hell. I bet most of us can accept that mistakes happen. What we can't tolerate, especially when your players invest a substantial amount of time and money into their mini-empires, is the lack of transparency and the failure to acknowledge the massive incident in a dignified period. Inno failed to mitigate the immediate damage with a timely response and continued their neglect for multiple days afterward, severely exacerbating the losses of all players on the affected servers - both the banned players' units and cities as well as their teammates' stressful attempts at salvaging what they could of the poorly orchestrated situation. Given those facts, I am sorely disappointed in and disapproving of Inno's undervalued offer of a few thousand gold. At least you are in the process of removing any remaining bans and ensuring players that the ban will not affect their future status. Let's only hope that you can recover your players' trust with that lackluster pittance for hush money.
 
Last edited:

donnacus

Citizen
The update was implemented on the 18th, the issue itself didn't come to light until later in the week. Its reasonable feedback that more testing could have been done since the changes were implemented, yes.
Yes the update was applied on the 18th and the issues began around 11 am server time on the 19th. Technically that IS later in the week but again you attempt to downplay the issue with language. we had 5 players in our alliance caught in the initial round. 5 of 70. This just around the end of the business day in Germany on THURSDAY. It should not have taken until Monday to come to your attention. If it did take that long your front line support team should all be fired, but I suspect they were crying out for help and the corporate developers were too arrogant or to ignorant to understand the issue. In either case they too should be fired. The response from INNO was too little too late for most of your clientele. I have played this game since December of 2013.

I have voiced my opinion of INNOs handling of this incident on multiple social media platforms. I only hope my friends and their friends heed my warnings and steer clear of all INNO game offerings.
 

Char Aznable

Citizen
I would really like to know why the US server was the only one that had these problems, It seems just as likely a angry Coma did it on purpose and then disappeared, it seems to have been somewhat targeted from what I can tell. No proof but honest questions
I would conjecture the US market is now considered the beta testing ground before they roll live in EN Servers as they would face EU legal issues vs. any other market where they have no local presence & can just close up shop at first sign of any public backlash...Germany being in the EU - they would face an actual monetary penalty.
 

icedragon1

Newcomer
The handling of this entire situation is at the utmost, ridiculous. Whether some bans were real, the fact remains many were banned that shouldn't have been. It's also insulting to be called "minor" glitches. This is now beyond the point of redemption, as far as inno's reputation goes and any possible real customer service we could now gain.
While again, I wasn't affected, my alliance was. My enemies were. It's appalling that the offering of a few pieces of gold is supposed to make us, the customers, turn a blind eye to this fiasco. Now many good players are leaving the US servers, or plan to; and it's quite apparent these last ditch efforts of throwing a couple more mods into it to field the disgust is also not seen as a real effort.
While I do feel sorry for them as they are limited in what they can do, I am still disgusted at how this situation has been handled and will certainly be looking for an alternative.

Any company who has this much disrespect for it's customer base will not survive. We expect a satisfactory level of service for what we pay for, as we would from any other company for their product. Any company that does not value it's customer base at this level deserves for the masses to vote with their funds, as I will certainly do. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
 
Maybe its time to look at the requirements to be a Moderator, I know plenty of people that have applied, but have all been turned down. Probably missed out on some great ones too that actually had decent knowledge of the game and would have been a huge help with this shortage the US seems to have.
I actually apply just about every time they post for a need for mods. Despite my temperament and people's opinions of me, I don't think many of you would disagree that I make this place a lot more lively and that me modding would be a great fit here. But they either never get back or directly tell me no and that it likely would never happen. Strangely enough last fall I applied and got accepted. I also was supposed to move up to player's council that week. You can't do both. Try to sell me on that being coincidental.
 
The feasibility isn't really the question here, more the potential impact such an action could have. This has of course had a significant impact to those directly in the line of fire, either those who were banned wrongly, or those who suffered losses as a result. In the grand scheme of things though, rolling back a server entails involving every single player within that server, and is arguably more damaging than offering individual compensation. I get how that sounds, I really do, but the picture is bigger than just those players touched by this issue.

With that being said, I'll certainly ask the question, although I suspect I know the answer.

In all honesty this is basically the only option inno has. Every player in every server WAS affected by this “glitch” entire servers that lasted over a year were decided, players had entire accounts basically wiped out. Enemies gained ground they never would have previously that completely alters the landscape of a server.

Lastly- the way inno is handling this whole situation is turning off so many plAyers things they need to take a drastic approach to let people know they are serious about how badly they screwed this up.
 

Char Aznable

Citizen
In all honesty this is basically the only option inno has. Every player in every server WAS affected by this “glitch” entire servers that lasted over a year were decided, players had entire accounts basically wiped out. Enemies gained ground they never would have previously that completely alters the landscape of a server.

Lastly- the way inno is handling this whole situation is turning off so many plAyers things they need to take a drastic approach to let people know they are serious about how badly they screwed this up.
Sadly, the first step is to admit you have a problem. They won't even do that. So demanding, arguing, pewpewing is meaningless......
 

Grepo Mauler

Philosopher
total. and only banned on one world.

if they think 1,500 gold makes up for the almost 1,000 dollars i lost. they must not be good at maths.

Went from ranked 2 and ranked 2 in BP. To rank 149. Inno correct your mistake. 1,500 gold IS NOTHING.
 
Last edited:

morg

Peltast
Player's Council
once I took a city by exploiting a yet unknown glitch (I reported it previously, but got the green light that nothing was wrong)... anyway the player got 2K gold for the 1 lost city... if I was falsely banned I would follow this logic in my appeal:
2K gold per lost city
1 great arming per every lost 25 cities
it would be reasonable and yet not covering the time loss what it takes to rebuild, some will never reach their old rankings