DeletedUser
Guest
Part 1
How walls and catapults work.
Hello there dear readers - My name is Draqone and I am the humble author of this incredibly amazing guide. There is a lot of controversy regarding catapults on the Grepolis forums so I have investigated and have gained some invaluable empirical results that shall be presented herein.
The wall gives the defenders an advantage. A level 25 wall gives a 142% bonus which means it can give 100 defenders the strength of 242 defenders. As you can see it's huge.
This bonus can be lowered by sending catapults with your army. Despite common misconceptions, the number of catapults that reduces the wall defence bonus as much as possible does not depend on the relative strengths of the armies. The ratio between the attacking and defending armies does not matter, how many catapults are necessary to lower the walls bonus depends solely on the level of the wall. The catapults can not fully negate the wall bonus however the differences are significant.
The number of catapults required to fully negate the bonus shows how many catapults are necessary for your army to attack with full potential and is totally independent of how many wall levels are destroyed. How many wall levels are destroyed depends both on the number of catapults and on the relative strengths of the armies. Sending the amount of catapults listed later in this guide does not guarantee you will destroy even one wall level, it does however guarantee your army will attack with it's full potential.
I have tested using slingers and catapults. My research assumes that each catapult equals 4 slingers. 4 Slingers have Ranged attack strength of 92 and a catapult has a strength of 100. The 8 point difference is engligble when using testing with armies of more then 1000 slingers.
During the experiment I have started with 1000 slingers and 50 catapults. I have then gradually decreased the number of catapults while increasing the number of slingers - step 2 would be 1004 slingers and 49 catapults, then 1008 slingers, 48 catapults and so on. When the walls bonus stopped being negated as far as possible the defenders losses started decreasing.
Using more catapults than shown in the above table has not lowered the walls bonus further.
A level 24 wall gives only the defensive bonus of a level 12 wall if a sufficient amount of catapults is used - this amount is 38 catapults, as shown above. A level 23 wall also also gives the same protection as a level 12 wall (11.5 rounded up) but required less catapults (in this case 33 catapults) is required to lower the bonus by as much.
If you attack without catapults 100 defenders behind a level 25 wall have the strength of 242 defenders, however if you send at least 39 catapults with your army 100 defenders will only have the strength of 159 defenders.
This means a proper use of catapults effectively reduces the defending army's strength by up to 34%.
The above values give the minimum amounts of catapults that should be used when attacking a city protected by the given wall level. When large amounts of defences are present it might be advantageous to use even higher amounts of catapults to catapult the wall - in my opinion however, it's instead better to use earthquake before attacking a city protected by a high wall.
Trivia:
Since the wall levels bonuses are rounded up after being lowered, it's not possible to lower the 3.7% bonus of the level 1 wall.
The 10% bonus of the Tower can not be in any way lowered.
Part 2
Per Population Comparison.
This one is tricky since you never know what defences you will hit and depends on the ratios between armies.
In this comparison we will compare the defenders losses while using standard nukes. The defence will be "balanced" meaning 2000 swords and 2000 archers however since we'll be comparing the same unit type nukes against each other it won't matter.
The point we are interested in is at what number of catapults is weakening the wall more effective then weakening the nuke by sacrificing troops to add catapults. I will be using slingers which have the highest attack per population. This means adding catapults to nukes will weaken them most. Catapults will be more effective in horsemen and hoplite nukes.
Comparison 1
[spr]Slinger Nuke - 1800 slingers
Slinger LCat - 1650 slingers + 10 Cats
Slinger/Cat - 1200 slingers + 40 Cats
Difference: % Between Slinger Nuke and Slinger/Cat
Defenders Losses at wall level 25
Slinger Nuke - 287
Slinger LCat - 304
Slinger/Cat - 350
Difference: 18%
Defenders Losses at wall level 20
Slinger Nuke - 357
Slinger LCat - 395
Slinger/Cat - 399
Difference: 11%
Defenders Losses at wall level 15
Slinger Nuke - 444
Slinger LCat - 513
Slinger/Cat - 436
Difference: -2%
Defenders Losses at wall level 10
Slinger Nuke - 553
Slinger LCat - 639
Slinger/Cat - 497
Difference: -11%
Defenders Losses at wall level 0
Slinger Nuke - 859
Slinger LCat - 795
Slinger/Cat - 619
Difference: -39%[/spr]
Conclusion:
Slinger cities with 40 catapults should be used on cities with a wall level 20 or higher.
Slinger cities with 10 catapults can be used almost universally.
The larger the defences you plan to hit the more cities with 40+ catapults you should prepare. All other offence cities should use ~12 catapults since they are more effective even against a level 10 wall.
I would advise against using pure nukes without catapults unless they are harpy/manticore nukes.
Final Notes after both tests
This guide applies only if you do not plan to keep the walls in a city. If you do plan to keep walls in the cities and don't mind losing many more nukes then do not use catapults.
It's best to use 3 types of nukes: with 40 catapults, most common with ~12 catapults and a few without any catapults.
If attacking a single city with large defences and a level 25 wall it's best to Earthquake it 3 times and use nukes with ~12 catapults.
If you attack many cities with large defences and level 25 walls the first attacks should have 40 catapults.
The first attack aimed at a city with a level 20+ wall should always have 40 catapults no matter what defences are present.
After this first nuke you might need to send more nukes with 40 catapults. After the nukes with 40 catapults the rest of the nukes should have ~12 catapults. The final nuke (when the wall is below 5) can be without any catapults - it's best to use your harpy/manticore nuke there.
Q: How many 40 cat nukes to send?
A: 1 nuke with for every 700 defenders population above 4000 defenders population (for example 2000 swords and 2000 archers) *
Attacking a city with 5400 defenders population (for example 2700 swords 2700 archers) you should send 2 nukes with 42 catapults. The rest of the nukes should have ~12 catapults.
Attacking a city with 11000 defenders population (for example 5500 swords 5500 archers) you should send 10 nukes with 42 catapults. The rest of the nukes should have ~12 catapults. [/I]
*While I know it's hard to predict, you should not be attacking cities with more then 12000 defenders population. It's silly.
You are free to distribute, remix, tweak, and build upon my work non-commercially, as long as you credit me for the original creation.
How walls and catapults work.
The Introduction
Hello there dear readers - My name is Draqone and I am the humble author of this incredibly amazing guide. There is a lot of controversy regarding catapults on the Grepolis forums so I have investigated and have gained some invaluable empirical results that shall be presented herein.
The Foreword
A little foreword that should introduce everyone to the topic.The wall gives the defenders an advantage. A level 25 wall gives a 142% bonus which means it can give 100 defenders the strength of 242 defenders. As you can see it's huge.
This bonus can be lowered by sending catapults with your army. Despite common misconceptions, the number of catapults that reduces the wall defence bonus as much as possible does not depend on the relative strengths of the armies. The ratio between the attacking and defending armies does not matter, how many catapults are necessary to lower the walls bonus depends solely on the level of the wall. The catapults can not fully negate the wall bonus however the differences are significant.
The number of catapults required to fully negate the bonus shows how many catapults are necessary for your army to attack with full potential and is totally independent of how many wall levels are destroyed. How many wall levels are destroyed depends both on the number of catapults and on the relative strengths of the armies. Sending the amount of catapults listed later in this guide does not guarantee you will destroy even one wall level, it does however guarantee your army will attack with it's full potential.
The Method
I have tested using slingers and catapults. My research assumes that each catapult equals 4 slingers. 4 Slingers have Ranged attack strength of 92 and a catapult has a strength of 100. The 8 point difference is engligble when using testing with armies of more then 1000 slingers.
During the experiment I have started with 1000 slingers and 50 catapults. I have then gradually decreased the number of catapults while increasing the number of slingers - step 2 would be 1004 slingers and 49 catapults, then 1008 slingers, 48 catapults and so on. When the walls bonus stopped being negated as far as possible the defenders losses started decreasing.
The Results
Below are the values for wall levels:
Using more catapults than shown in the above table has not lowered the walls bonus further.
The Conclusion
The above table shows that catapults are very important: they can reduce the walls bonus to that of a wall half it's level, rounded up. A level 24 wall gives only the defensive bonus of a level 12 wall if a sufficient amount of catapults is used - this amount is 38 catapults, as shown above. A level 23 wall also also gives the same protection as a level 12 wall (11.5 rounded up) but required less catapults (in this case 33 catapults) is required to lower the bonus by as much.
If you attack without catapults 100 defenders behind a level 25 wall have the strength of 242 defenders, however if you send at least 39 catapults with your army 100 defenders will only have the strength of 159 defenders.
This means a proper use of catapults effectively reduces the defending army's strength by up to 34%.
The above values give the minimum amounts of catapults that should be used when attacking a city protected by the given wall level. When large amounts of defences are present it might be advantageous to use even higher amounts of catapults to catapult the wall - in my opinion however, it's instead better to use earthquake before attacking a city protected by a high wall.
Trivia:
Since the wall levels bonuses are rounded up after being lowered, it's not possible to lower the 3.7% bonus of the level 1 wall.
The 10% bonus of the Tower can not be in any way lowered.
The Advice
Those seeking to destroy the enemy walls while he is busy protecting his other cities can build 42 catapults which is the number to fully destroy a level 25 wall in an empty city. Part 2
Per Population Comparison.
This one is tricky since you never know what defences you will hit and depends on the ratios between armies.
In this comparison we will compare the defenders losses while using standard nukes. The defence will be "balanced" meaning 2000 swords and 2000 archers however since we'll be comparing the same unit type nukes against each other it won't matter.
The point we are interested in is at what number of catapults is weakening the wall more effective then weakening the nuke by sacrificing troops to add catapults. I will be using slingers which have the highest attack per population. This means adding catapults to nukes will weaken them most. Catapults will be more effective in horsemen and hoplite nukes.
Comparison 1
[spr]Slinger Nuke - 1800 slingers
Slinger LCat - 1650 slingers + 10 Cats
Slinger/Cat - 1200 slingers + 40 Cats
Difference: % Between Slinger Nuke and Slinger/Cat
Defenders Losses at wall level 25
Slinger Nuke - 287
Slinger LCat - 304
Slinger/Cat - 350
Difference: 18%
Defenders Losses at wall level 20
Slinger Nuke - 357
Slinger LCat - 395
Slinger/Cat - 399
Difference: 11%
Defenders Losses at wall level 15
Slinger Nuke - 444
Slinger LCat - 513
Slinger/Cat - 436
Difference: -2%
Defenders Losses at wall level 10
Slinger Nuke - 553
Slinger LCat - 639
Slinger/Cat - 497
Difference: -11%
Defenders Losses at wall level 0
Slinger Nuke - 859
Slinger LCat - 795
Slinger/Cat - 619
Difference: -39%[/spr]
Conclusion:
Slinger cities with 40 catapults should be used on cities with a wall level 20 or higher.
Slinger cities with 10 catapults can be used almost universally.
The larger the defences you plan to hit the more cities with 40+ catapults you should prepare. All other offence cities should use ~12 catapults since they are more effective even against a level 10 wall.
I would advise against using pure nukes without catapults unless they are harpy/manticore nukes.
Final Notes after both tests
This guide applies only if you do not plan to keep the walls in a city. If you do plan to keep walls in the cities and don't mind losing many more nukes then do not use catapults.
It's best to use 3 types of nukes: with 40 catapults, most common with ~12 catapults and a few without any catapults.
If attacking a single city with large defences and a level 25 wall it's best to Earthquake it 3 times and use nukes with ~12 catapults.
If you attack many cities with large defences and level 25 walls the first attacks should have 40 catapults.
The first attack aimed at a city with a level 20+ wall should always have 40 catapults no matter what defences are present.
After this first nuke you might need to send more nukes with 40 catapults. After the nukes with 40 catapults the rest of the nukes should have ~12 catapults. The final nuke (when the wall is below 5) can be without any catapults - it's best to use your harpy/manticore nuke there.
Q: How many 40 cat nukes to send?
A: 1 nuke with for every 700 defenders population above 4000 defenders population (for example 2000 swords and 2000 archers) *
Attacking a city with 5400 defenders population (for example 2700 swords 2700 archers) you should send 2 nukes with 42 catapults. The rest of the nukes should have ~12 catapults.
Attacking a city with 11000 defenders population (for example 5500 swords 5500 archers) you should send 10 nukes with 42 catapults. The rest of the nukes should have ~12 catapults. [/I]
*While I know it's hard to predict, you should not be attacking cities with more then 12000 defenders population. It's silly.
The License
You are free to distribute, remix, tweak, and build upon my work non-commercially, as long as you credit me for the original creation.
Last edited by a moderator:
This deserves a +rep