Bridging the Gap

Antz2013

Philosopher
I signed up for the cult! :D



This is the worst part about moderation :)

Players can't know why they are banned so they make up reasons and claim their innocence etc.. Makes the player base hate and mistrust the moderators and Inno. Also results in many players quitting the game or stop spending money on it.
You are incorrect on that. If you are banned and attempt to log in, you get a pop up on your screen that indicates the ban reason, the ban's duration, the type of ban (attackable vs non-attackable) and a few other related tidbits of information regarding that particular ban, normally in the form of a paragraph or two. For example: if player 'x' was banned for multi-accounting, the respective ban information would show on their screen when they try to log in. So they are made aware of why they were banned and for how long etc, we just don't tell them how we discovered them.

Also keep in mind that we only talk to the player(s) involved, what they tell everyone else is their respective business. Believe me, there have been many times I would have LOVED to dispel ban misinformation about a player to other players, but since we are not permitted to do so....
 
^ I can back this up for when I played in a former world. Got reported for my city names being in the Dragon Language (Skyrim - Much like my game name is) and was locked-out and given the reason why saying the words "weren't english". Which they were, provided the evidence and was placed back in immediately.

Who was I mad at? The alliance whose butt I was kicking that reported me because I was the leader of the team kicking their butts. I came back and took 20 cities as a thank you present lol
 

Pluto

Citizen
Oh come on Pluto, just say yes or no lol
yes or no lol

^^ sufficient?

^ I can back this up for when I played in a former world. Got reported for my city names being in the Dragon Language (Skyrim - Much like my game name is) and was locked-out and given the reason why saying the words "weren't english". Which they were, provided the evidence and was placed back in immediately.

Who was I mad at? The alliance whose butt I was kicking that reported me because I was the leader of the team kicking their butts. I came back and took 20 cities as a thank you present lol
We try to get the players back to the game as quick as possible especially in cases such as this.

As far as reporting to get players banned while you are being attacked, We're smarter than that. Too bad I can't give examples of some epic attempts and situations.o_O
 
yes or no lol

^^ sufficient?



We try to get the players back to the game as quick as possible especially in cases such as this.

As far as reporting to get players banned while you are being attacked, We're smarter than that. Too bad I can't give examples of some epic attempts and situations.o_O

1) No, you jerk <3

2) It was my team of less than 30 vs their over 250 people. So who knows who sent the ticket in within that team (it was in Marathon)
 

sunilvarma

Guest





You are incorrect on that. If you are banned and attempt to log in, you get a pop up on your screen that indicates the ban reason, the ban's duration, the type of ban (attackable vs non-attackable) and a few other related tidbits of information regarding that particular ban, normally in the form of a paragraph or two. For example: if player 'x' was banned for multi-accounting, the respective ban information would show on their screen when they try to log in. So they are made aware of why they were banned and for how long etc, we just don't tell them how we discovered them.

Also keep in mind that we only talk to the player(s) involved, what they tell everyone else is their respective business. Believe me, there have been many times I would have LOVED to dispel ban misinformation about a player to other players, but since we are not permitted to do so....
Not what I meant.

I've been a moderator, I know everything you can see. And I know you can't tell players all of the things you can see, because then "over time players will learn how to circumvent your tools and get away with cheating." You can't tell player x exactly what you found that lead to him/her being banned, only the reason for the ban itself.. Even if the ban is wrong. I've been wrongfully banned before - many players have.

When a player is wrongfully banned, and cannot be told exactly what flagged them for the ban, there becomes a sense of mistrust towards the moderators. This is why many players think the support team is corrupt. The support team is not perfect. If they could divulge more, then the player could explain why their ban placement is incorrect, and the moderator would learn something. As it is, the moderator often has to showboat to save face and stick with the reasoning for the ban often w/out actually reconsidering... And the player can do nothing as they're not fully informed.

As for your ban Sunvaar, of course they can tell you exactly why you were banned there, as that is common sense and doesn't reveal the nature or extent of any of their tools.
 

Antz2013

Philosopher
Not what I meant.

I've been a moderator, I know everything you can see. And I know you can't tell players all of the things you can see, because then "over time players will learn how to circumvent your tools and get away with cheating." You can't tell player x exactly what you found that lead to him/her being banned, only the reason for the ban itself.. Even if the ban is wrong. I've been wrongfully banned before - many players have.

When a player is wrongfully banned, and cannot be told exactly what flagged them for the ban, there becomes a sense of mistrust towards the moderators. This is why many players think the support team is corrupt. The support team is not perfect. If they could divulge more, then the player could explain why their ban placement is incorrect, and the moderator would learn something. As it is, the moderator often has to showboat to save face and stick with the reasoning for the ban often w/out actually reconsidering... And the player can do nothing as they're not fully informed.

As for your ban Sunvaar, of course they can tell you exactly why you were banned there, as that is common sense and doesn't reveal the nature or extent of any of their tools.
As mentioned before we are taking steps to minimize and, if possible, work towards eliminating those issues.

In regards to Moderators 'showboating', we cross check a lot of bans and seniors do quality reviews on tickets and bans with the aim to coach any Moderators that needs to improve their skills as needed and correct bans if deemed necessary.

As for revealing more information, this is unlikely to change unless InnoGames modifies their policies on privacy and confidentially.
 
I swear people who have been banned for bots and such and came back all said that theirs told them it was because they got caught with the bot or whatever.. Regardless, doesn't matter.

Wouldn't it have made sense though to submit that to the higher ups when you were a MOD sunvil? Or am I missing something?
 

sunilvarma

Guest
And you assume I didn't communicate my frustrations multiple times, Sunvaar?

All Medi and Richard could do, if they even agree with me, is tell their higher-ups.

Innogames is a multi-game company, with Grepolis undoubtedly not their most profitable. If we were more of a priority these issues would probably be easier fixed. But as is, doesn't seem to be that way.

Thank you Antz.
 
Antzy: It's the same player we discussed through messages. And yes, I officially reported her now. She needs to be banned and removed of her rights.
 
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Pluto

Citizen
1) No, you jerk <3


Though even without the playfulness of the <3 I do in fact still play. But no, I am not going to disclose what world or my player name. Those whom I have built years of trust with know my true identity. I'm sure by now you could probably ask around and with a little bit of investigation figure out who I am. I do ask that you keep it to yourself though. We keep this level of invincibility for a reason.
 


Though even without the playfulness of the <3 I do in fact still play. But no, I am not going to disclose what world or my player name. Those whom I have built years of trust with know my true identity. I'm sure by now you could probably ask around and with a little bit of investigation figure out who I am. I do ask that you keep it to yourself though. We keep this level of invincibility for a reason.
Meh, pestering you is more fun lol :p

Hope you enjoyed your Easter!
 

Joseph Nieves

Polemarch
1)I f there is no rules for a problem that comes up, it is up to the CoMa's discretion to make a rule? For example when world chats on skype became popular there became a rule that you could only post the link if the chat was PC/family friendly and had a mod in it.

2) Why is there such an emphasis on speaking family friendly? It's really hard to have a conversation when you have to check over what you write to make sure there are no inappropriate words. This especially got tougher as the list seemed to expand to more and more words that were not really offensive or inappropriate at all. I also would like to know why city names, alliance names, and profiles are subject to being family friendly. Seems like an unnecessary restriction on free speech.

Not really sure if there is a point in asking this but:

3) With every CoMa there are some people who feel they are unfairly targeted by the CoMa or someone in upper management. If they have legitimate concern what can they do to ensure they will be treated fairly treated?

People seemed to have this problem a lot a few years ago. They would get on the bad side of somebody at the top and have no way to report unfair treatment.
 

Antz2013

Philosopher
Thank you for your questions. I will break them down to individual responses

1)I f there is no rules for a problem that comes up, it is up to the CoMa's discretion to make a rule? For example when world chats on skype became popular there became a rule that you could only post the link if the chat was PC/family friendly and had a mod in it.
To clarify world chats no longer involve mods. In fact InnoGames has required that all world Skype chats involving mods be disabled and references to them are no longer permitted in the forums.

Also the CoMa's frequently discuss these issues as a group and get input from their peer group before coming to a decision.

2) Why is there such an emphasis on speaking family friendly? It's really hard to have a conversation when you have to check over what you write to make sure there are no inappropriate words. This especially got tougher as the list seemed to expand to more and more words that were not really offensive or inappropriate at all. I also would like to know why city names, alliance names, and profiles are subject to being family friendly. Seems like an unnecessary restriction on free speech.
The use of 'Family Friendly' is for a several reasons. First Grepolis is advertised as being family friendly, as such InnoGames is required to maintain that standards associated with that. Second there are many players who DO NOT consider having someone cursing and swearing at them as appropriate. Third: We also have minors that play and they are frequently under parental supervision, and those parents (and their kids) object to that behavior as well. You have no idea how many times we have had players threatened, players being deliberately provoked, responses sent in anger, the list goes on and that is just the private messages. This is not a small issue and if players are left unchecked, there are some that will dive past any established limits and ultimately (and likely deliberately) drive the more sensitive players out of the game. Unfortunately there are always some that have to see how far they can go with their behavior, I know as I have encountered a few that have already tried.

Not really sure if there is a point in asking this but:

3) With every CoMa there are some people who feel they are unfairly targeted by the CoMa or someone in upper management. If they have legitimate concern what can they do to ensure they will be treated fairly treated?

People seemed to have this problem a lot a few years ago. They would get on the bad side of somebody at the top and have no way to report unfair treatment.
My advice would be to first review the appropriate rule(s). Frequently there is a misinterpretation/misunderstanding or difference of opinion in regards to the rules.

Regardless, if there is an issue, a ticket needs to be submitted and responded to.

Once you receive the response, some things to keep in mind
1. We are frequently unaware of the nuances of that world politics and inter-player relations
2. We cannot rely on the forums for information due to either the lack of information or the misinformation the frequently pops up.
3. Also this information actually can interfere with our job to remain a neutral third party.3. We have to maintain 14+ worlds with roughly 1000+ players per world and maintaining that many worlds continuous task, even on the support team level.


Why are those three things pertinent. Simple, frequently these issues involved revolve around a rule violation or claims of bias.
 

Joseph Nieves

Polemarch
1) Thanks, understood.

2) I can get the swearing thing upsetting some people and being inappropriate. My point was that rules are fine but micromanaging is not, and sometimes the mods are borderline micromanaging when they start nitpicking at minute details. Whether it be on the forum, or ingame. Like I wouldn't think a city name, alliance name, or player profile would upset people. All three are heavily regulated or at least once were. Which created a system where players started reported anything that might be "offensive" so they could get enemy players temp. banned.

As for the minor thing that's just overprotective imo You have to be 13 to sign up, so you're already a teenager and know what bad words are (and use them). Oh well guess I should be happy my parents never supervised me like that lol

Just to clarify I get that players need to get punished when they threaten others, or when they are deliberately provoking people, etc. I know I experienced that at 13 and didn't like it. My problem is that the rules says you can call a player a noob and other respectful taunts. I do not know of any "respectful taunts" that haven't at one point or another been deemed inappropriate by one or some in the moderation team. Any word other than noob can't really be said at all and that seems ridiculous, context does matter and should be used to determine whether the bad word is inappropriate.

3) Thank you.

Thanks for the response, and good thinking on making the thread :cool: Some of the things I say don't entirely apply because I haven't played in a while but these were some big complaints people l knew had when I did play.
 

Antz2013

Philosopher
In regards to the micromanaging, I would agree that there is a fine line but it one that the support team (both in game and forum) must tread with the objective of maintaining decorum within the player community without stifling player communication. Is it easy... no but it must be done.

My problem is that the rules says you can call a player a noob and other respectful taunts. I do not know of any "respectful taunts" that haven't at one point or another been deemed inappropriate by one or some in the moderation team. Any word other than noob can't really be said at all and that seems ridiculous, context does matter and should be used to determine whether the bad word is inappropriate.
Here is the issue with rules like this. If you are too vague in writing them, then there is too much of a chance of players or Moderators misinterpreting or misunderstanding the premise or spirit of the rules. If you are too specific then you start having gaps in their coverage. The hard part is finding a happy medium.

In regards to taunting - simply put a respectful taunt would be taunting someone in a way that gets your point across without demeaning them. What gets players in trouble is the last part when players, deliberately or not, put other players down. There is a fine line as to what is acceptable and what is not.